# Dowsing Rods, the Ideomotor effect...what's the straight dope? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836 "2017-06-25T15:30:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/161 "2017-11-22T17:58:04Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > Sorry (not really!) to resurrect this, but article today on the BBC website that’s sort of relevant. > > [Scientist finds UK water companies use 'magic' to find leaks - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42070719) > [@](#): > > In a statement issued later, Severn Trent said: “We don’t issue divining rods but we believe some of our engineers use them.” “We don’t train our doctors in faith healing, but we believe some of them eschew modern medicine and use that method.” “We don’t train our pollsters to read minds, but we believe some of them forgo verbally asking questions and telepathically receive responses instead.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/162 "2017-11-22T22:40:39Z")
As I saId last time, of course you can find things via dowsing. People do it all the time. The question is, how? Obviously not by magnetic fields or static electricity or some other physical phenomenon since there are so many different physical tools that people use successfully. A magnetic field isn’t going to move wires, pull forked wooden sticks, or wobble pendulums all at the same time. The only explanation that makes sense are the mysterious powers hidden away in the human mind. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/163 "2017-11-22T22:49:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > As I saId last time, of course you can find things via dowsing. People do it all the time. The question is, how? > > Obviously not by magnetic fields or static electricity or some other physical phenomenon since there are so many different physical tools that people use successfully. A magnetic field isn’t going to move wires, pull forked wooden sticks, or wobble pendulums all at the same time. > > The only explanation that makes sense are the mysterious powers hidden away in the human mind. _Please_ tell me you forgot to post a :rolleyes: smiley. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/164 "2017-11-23T16:15:57Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > As I saId last time, of course you can find things via dowsing. People do it all the time. Please can you give a cite showing that happens. (And are you relying on anecdotes or scientific tests?) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/165 "2017-11-23T18:58:07Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The only explanation that makes sense are the mysterious powers hidden away in the human mind. Which makes more sense to you: 1. There is this mysterious power that defies known science that goes into hiding whenever someone takes a serious look at it, or 2. Some people are easily fooled, by both themselves and by others. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/166 "2017-11-23T19:00:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which makes more sense to you: > > 1. There is this mysterious power that defies known science that goes into hiding whenever someone takes a serious look at it, or > 2. Some people are easily fooled, by both themselves and by others. I suspect that the mysterious power that Lemur66 is talking about is subconscious pattern-recognition, not anything mystical (but I could be wrong). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/167 "2017-11-23T19:04:54Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I suspect that the mysterious power that Lemur66 is talking about is subconscious pattern-recognition, not anything mystical (but I could be wrong). I certainly hope that was what he was referring to, because ambiguity in such matters serves no one. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/168 "2017-11-23T19:05:18Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I suspect that the mysterious power that Lemur66 is talking about is subconscious pattern-recognition, not anything mystical (but I could be wrong). That was how I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/169 "2017-11-23T19:15:04Z")
Incidentally, I think strategically it works better to say “scientists have proven [paranormal phenomenon X] is explained by [human cognitive bias Y]” than to say “[paranormal phenomenon X] doesn’t exist.” People who think they experienced X are typically (slightly) more willing to listen to an explanation than a dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/170 "2017-11-24T11:29:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “We don’t train our doctors in faith healing, but we believe some of them eschew modern medicine and use that method.” > “We don’t train our pollsters to read minds, but we believe some of them forgo verbally asking questions and telepathically receive responses instead.” I think it’s more a case of “As long as they find the leaks, we’re not going to stand over them to double-check whatever they think works” (medicine doesn’t quite meet your intended standard for refutation, by the way - ever heard of the placebo effect?) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/171 "2017-11-24T12:11:51Z")
Equating “faith healing” with “the placebo effect”? That’s a nice straw you’ve grasped there. BTW, “what they _think_ works” is a pretty low bar-is there any evidence that it _does_ work? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/172 "2017-11-24T14:54:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Equating “faith healing” with “the placebo effect”? That’s a nice straw you’ve grasped there. Can’t see much of a difference. No-one quite knows what either actually does or is likely to do. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > BTW, “what they _think_ works” is a pretty low bar-is there any evidence that it _does_ work? Of course not: but the employing authority is not saying it does or that either they or their engineers rely solely on it, simply that all they’re interested in is that leaks get fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836/173 "2017-11-24T15:26:09Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > Sorry (not really!) to resurrect this, but article today on the BBC website that’s sort of relevant. > > [Scientist finds UK water companies use 'magic' to find leaks - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42070719) That article would be useless even if dowsing were possible and it’s not. We don’t know how many test holes or false positives the field engineers experience. If you are sent out to an address that has a known underground water pipe, experience and a few test digs will turn it up. No need for dowsing. I’m guessing they do it to mess with the young guys. Reminds me of my younger days as a carpenters apprentice and they would send me off for a board stretcher or a sky hook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dowsing-rods-the-ideomotor-effect-whats-the-straight-dope/789836.md?page=8)