# Dozens injured in Waukesha, WI at Christmas parade: Nov 2021 \[update: 6 dead, over 40 injured\]\[update: trial\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 22, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746 "2021-11-22T00:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/21 "2021-11-22T03:24:46Z")
This Milwaukee cite has multiple eyewitness accounts and gives a sense as to who are the victims. No mention of the suspect shooting. > **[Driver plows into Waukesha Christmas Parade crowd, leaving five dead, more...](https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/waukesha/news/2021/11/21/waukesha-christmas-parade-car-rams-through-downtown-shots-fired-people-injured/8714041002/)** > > Five people were reported dead and more than 40 injured after an SUV plowed through a holiday parade in a Milwaukee suburb. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/22 "2021-11-22T03:27:10Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > The “firing rifle into the crowd” seems to be just rumor? I don’t see anything close to that on a credible cite. > > Yes, and perhaps not even reaching the level of a rumor yet? Just what that guy wrote. One of the subsequent comments mentions that a window on the vehicle appears to be shot out. That would tend to suggest that someone outside the vehicle (cops?) shot into the vehicle? Yes it was confirmed that one officer fired at the vehicle. Still the only official statement was that no bystanders were hit but the police did not say if the suspect was hit. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/23 "2021-11-22T03:28:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes it was confirmed that one officer fired at the vehicle. Y’all read it here first! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/24 "2021-11-22T03:31:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes it was confirmed that one officer fired at the vehicle. Does it seem like shooting into the vehicle would be a prudent thing to do? Would that be likely to stop the vehicle? Or cause it to careen further out of contol? Would it accomplish anything, especially as nobody had any clue what’s going on with the driver? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/25 "2021-11-22T03:33:48Z")
It’s really… I won’t say incomprehensible. It’s just very… well, it’s literally a slow motion car crash and I just (metaphorically now) can’t look away. There is a video (not linking, you can find it if you want to) of the vehicle first swerving and a middling speed to avoid one group of people, but then of course the next batch in the parade is a marching band taking up the whole street. And the vehicle just keeps going… right on through. If they were trying to get somewhere fast, they weren’t going very fast. But then they just kept on going… One might hope this person was experiencing some kind of episode, but I wouldn’t rule anything out (or even in) yet. For all I know, this is just some idiot who wound up behind some really inconsiderate pedestrians (from his or her POV) taking up the whole street, and by the time they realized it was a parade, they were too deep into a mindset of “I’m just going to drive my way out of here.” To the point they drove into… and through… a marching band. Among others. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/26 "2021-11-22T03:33:56Z")
Prudent? Maybe not. But, if there’s a vehicle continuing to drive through a parade at high-ish speed, I could certainly see it being a split-second decision being made by an officer trying to stop the driver. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/27 "2021-11-22T03:41:00Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Does it seem like shooting into the vehicle would be a prudent thing to do? Would that be likely to stop the vehicle? Or cause it to careen further out of contol? Would it accomplish anything, especially as nobody had any clue what’s going on with the driver? Further out of control? Seems to me the problem was it was very much _in control_. Honestly, “out of control” and into a parked car, a light pole, or even an occupied store front would have been an improvement going off what happened up to that point. As I just noted, it literally drove through a marching band. From back to front, the whole length of it, with kids going over the hood and… under. This is one of those situations where even an out of control vehicle would likely have been an improvement, with the one caveat being that if the shots fired were captured in the video I think it was in, then the shots seem to have been fired as the vehicle _departed_ the parade route. Still… I think it’d be reasonable to fear for the safety of others (even beyond the parade route) after having evidence the driver was willing to drive over and through dozens of people. Kind of like the vehicular homicide equivalent of an active shooter loose on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/28 "2021-11-22T03:43:18Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Yes it was confirmed that one officer fired at the vehicle. > > Y’all read it here first! It was in the press conference and widely reported. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/29 "2021-11-22T03:50:28Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > [@Senegoid](#): > > > > Does it seem like shooting into the vehicle would be a prudent thing to do? Would that be likely to stop the vehicle? Or cause it to careen further out of contol? Would it accomplish anything, especially as nobody had any clue what’s going on with the driver? > > Further out of control? Seems to me the problem was it was very much _in control_. Honestly, “out of control” and into a parked car, a light pole, or even an occupied store front would have been an improvement going off what happened up to that point. As I just noted, it literally drove through a marching band. From back to front, the whole length of it, with kids going over the hood and… under. > > This is one of those situations where even an out of control vehicle would likely have been an improvement, with the one caveat being that if the shots fired were captured in the video I think it was in, then the shots seem to have been fired as the vehicle _departed_ the parade route. Still… I think it’d be reasonable to fear for the safety of others (even beyond the parade route) after having evidence the driver was willing to drive over and through dozens of people. Kind of like the vehicular homicide equivalent of an active shooter loose on the streets. I figured there would be some pretty horrific video coming out. There were bound to be a bunch of cameras out videoing family in the parade. The early videos showed the driver bypassed a lot of potential victims. One shows the vehicle barely missing a little girl. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/30 "2021-11-22T03:53:56Z")
Sorry–I thought I was in the Pit thread discussing this. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/31 "2021-11-22T04:00:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The early videos showed the driver bypassed a lot of potential victims. One shows the vehicle barely missing a little girl. And that’s what’s really perplexing. The vehicle wasn’t so much speeding as driving at what would be a reasonable speed for the route _if there weren’t a parade going on_. It was not so much out of control as just… not stopping when you’d think someone who was surprised to find themselves on a parade route would stop. I mean, _surely_ someone without ill intent would stop at the back of the marching band at the very least. But then surely someone _with_ ill intent wouldn’t bypass so many potential victims. And yet if they were just out of their mind or confused… they certainly seemed to maintain control of their vehicle well enough. So I’m morbidly curious as to what this driver might tell us about… whatever state of mind they were in at the time they did this. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/32 "2021-11-22T04:03:00Z")
Yes at this point perplexing is a good word. Should know more tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/33 "2021-11-22T04:06:14Z")
I finally was able to sit down to try and catch up on the news and saw this. WTF??? 😱 ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/34 "2021-11-22T04:13:55Z")
IME, there are usually barricades blocking side streets that intersect with the parade route and detouring traffic on the route, itself to keep drivers from inadvertently coming up behind the parade. I’d be very surprised if that weren’t the case here. Even if someone slipped up on that, a driver seeing people marching in the street ahead should’ve slowed or stopped. Like everyone else, I’m just sickened. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/35 "2021-11-22T04:14:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes at this point perplexing is a good word. Should know more tomorrow. Two former FBI terrorism agents noticed this, and make some comments. They, too, find this perplexing. > **[Former FBI terrorism experts saw something fishy in the red SUV attack that...](https://www.rawstory.com/terrorism-expert-waukesha-suv/)** > > Former FBI agents Clint Watts and Frank Figliuzzi agreed that there was something different about the Waukesha mass casualty event than previous incidents.Watts pointed out that if the driver had wanted to kill as many people as possible, why would... > [@](#): > > “It was a very unusual video, and I having looked at other terrorist attacks which were vehicle-borne attacks,” said Watts. "They are quite different. I am confused of what to make of it. The driver in some places seemed to deliberately mow over people and other places to dodge them. [. . .] > > [. . .] > > He went on to say that the event had a heavy police presence and that terrorists look for places where there isn’t law enforcement. ETA: Fox host Jon Scott says he thinks the driver was high on fentanyl or “angel dust” (PCP). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/36 "2021-11-22T04:15:38Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > IME, there are usually barricades blocking side streets that intersect with the parade route and detouring traffic on the route, itself to keep drivers from inadvertently coming up behind the parade. I read, in some early eyewitness accounts, reports that the SUV drove through/over barricades in the process of getting onto the street that was the parade route. I imagine that we’ll learn if this was actually the case in the days to come. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/37 "2021-11-22T04:41:15Z")
There were barricades, there is a vid of him driving right through them. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/38 "2021-11-22T05:06:48Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > But then surely someone _with_ ill intent wouldn’t bypass so many potential victims. I take it you haven’t play much Grand Theft Auto as a sandbox rather than mission style. If you are looking to run over a lot of people at once, you don’t want to keep damaging your vehicle by running over people here and there before you reach the crowd because damage adds up. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/40 "2021-11-22T05:42:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > ETA: Fox host Jon Scott says he thinks the driver was high on fentanyl Not sure how being high on a super-potent depressant would drive someone to vehicular homicide, but OK. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746/41 "2021-11-22T05:43:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Not sure how being high on a super-potent depressant would drive someone to vehicular homicide, but OK. Angel Dust too. What happens if you combine the two? Just more high-quality news from the aptly-named Faux News. Just some host there making wild-ass guesses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-injured-in-waukesha-wi-at-christmas-parade-nov-2021-update-6-dead-over-40-injured-update-trial/954746.md?page=3)