# Dozens of Republicans threaten to split from GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 12, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880 "2021-05-12T00:56:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/1 "2021-05-12T00:56:03Z")
[NY Times article here](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/us/politics/republicans-third-party-trump.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) (probably paywalled) > More than 100 Republicans, including some former elected officials, are preparing to release a letter this week threatening to form a third party if the Republican Party does not make certain changes, according to an organizer of the effort. > > The statement is expected to take aim at former President Donald J. Trump’s stranglehold on Republicans, which signatories to the document have deemed unconscionable. There has been a lot of talk on this board and elsewhere about Trump causing a rift in the GOP. The vote tonight on Liz Cheney;'s leadership position is a symptom of this rift, certainly. Is this group the tip of the spear that will divide the GOP? I don’t think so - it actually seems like weak sauce to me, since as far as I can tell none of the people “threatening” this split are current GOP politicians. And they’re not actually doing it yet, they’re just _threatening_ it. So it sounds like much ado about nothing to me. That said, I certainly encourage it! Anything that has the potential to damage the current batshit GOP is good with me. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/2 "2021-05-12T01:06:14Z")
They’ll only do it if their voters stop supporting fascism, bigotry and incompetence. So far GOP voters seem fine with it. Trump won 74 million votes in 2020. GOP candidates in the house won 73 million votes. They’re running on an openly racist, authoritarian, incompetent platform that only truly values bigotry and plutocracy and still get 70+ million votes. Why would the GOP change? The GOP politicians will only change when they start losing elections. So far that isn’t happening. Whatever minor amount of support the GOP has lost from college educated whites, they’ve gained from increased support from high school educated whites and non-whites. Not only that but with gerrymandering, voter suppression, in built biases in our system, etc the GOP can lose the popular vote by ~5% or so and still win elections. In Wisconsin which is heavily gerrymandered, the democrats have to win 60% of the vote in order to win the state assembly. So anytime the GOP wins 41% of the vote, they win over 50% of the seats. They have no incentive to change. Politicians will change when the voters stop rewarding them, and the voters are rewarding them for this behavior. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/3 "2021-05-12T01:08:48Z")
Dozens of Republicans threaten to leave the GOP!!! Including some former officials??? Even – dare we hope – CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN??? Somebody fan me, I’m about to swoon! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/4 "2021-05-12T01:13:45Z")
The trainwreck of the Republican party amuses me. It’s fun to watch. But then again, I enjoyed watching the non-Republican Donald Trump insult and demean his way through Republican candidates in 2016. So as much as I enjoy watching it, I don’t know what it will lead to. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/5 "2021-05-12T01:15:07Z")
Wake me when somebody who doesn’t have one foot out the door of the local dogcatcher office on his way to a rest home actually threatens to quit the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/6 "2021-05-12T01:46:35Z")
@CaptMurdock yeah, this. the party is purging elected pubbies who don’t agree with Trump and ensuring that only MAGA types run for office. The future of the republican party is firmly in the hands of the Trumpies, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/7 "2021-05-12T02:04:02Z")
If they were really serious, they would be threatening to support the Democrats (if not just outright joining them at this point). It’s right there in the letter they drafted: > [@](#): > > When in our democratic republic, forces of conspiracy, division, and despotism arise, it is the patriotic duty of citizens to act collectively in defense of liberty and justice. Citizens to act collectively. Not make pointless feel-good gestures. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/8 "2021-05-12T02:07:34Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lKie-vgUGdI/maxresdefault.jpg "There are dozens of us... DOZENS") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKie-vgUGdI) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/9 "2021-05-12T03:30:23Z")
It’s a mere glimmer of hope at this point and I won’t go further than that. It should be noted that one of the reasons Cheney is so angry is that the NRCC withheld critical internal polling data that showed Trump’s favorability ratings in battleground districts were down by an average of 15%. > **[House GOP campaign officials withheld poor Trump poll numbers from lawmakers...](https://www.businessinsider.com/cheney-trump-national-republican-congressional-committee-battleground-district-polls-2021-5)** > > NRCC staffers withheld bad polling numbers even when pressed by a member of Congress regarding Trump's support, according to The Washington Post. (This link requires you to disable your adblocker.) I think Cheney, with whom I disagree strenuously about _everything_, is prescient on this one. As more information about Trump’s criminality comes to light, he will become less and less an influencer in upcoming elections. I am also bolstered a bit by the fact that Trump’s blog isn’t catching fire as he may have hoped: > **[Trump's blog isn't lighting up the internet](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trumps-blog-isnt-lighting-internet-rcna890)** > > Social media data collected by NBC News found little engagement with the posts, which hints at the effectiveness of deplatforming. Lastly, Trump will soon be deeply engaged in avoiding civil and criminal consequences for his actions. He isn’t going to have as much time for the Republican party. To me, what Republicans are doing smacks more of desperation than of a well planned strategy. That said, they came far riding their anti-democratic, unconstitutional and filthy waves of propaganda, lies and jingoism. They may yet again prevail with their willingness to destroy all that this country is founded upon in their quest for money and power. I hope not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/10 "2021-05-12T03:39:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > They’ll only do it if their voters stop supporting fascism, bigotry and incompetence. Whoa, whoa, whoa - let’s not go overboard here. They only want to separate the Republican party from Donald Trump. Nobody is talking about abandoning core principles. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/11 "2021-05-12T03:40:50Z")
It might not seem like a big deal that a few RINOS or Wall St Repubs are leaving the party, but actually, it’s a crucial first step toward delegitimizing the new Trumpist brand party. I’ve been advocating this for a while. Trumpism has a base, and then there’s the rest of the party that cringes at what he and the base say, but do nothing else because they want access and influence within the party. They have to split the party. That gives the ones who stay less of a platform. If the rest of the party stays, it gives the batshit insane base legitimacy. They have to be isolated - not by progressives or the center left but by the center right and even the solid but otherwise sane and mostly principled right. This means people like Condy Rice, the Bushes, and others have to do more than just quietly make oblique comments about how ‘unfortunate’ the rhetoric is ‘on both sides.’ I mean, really, these moderates, through their ties to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, are the ones who created what would ultimately become Trump and Trumpism; it’s their responsibility to destroy him. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/12 "2021-05-12T03:48:26Z")
They’re writing a LETTER?!!? What’s next, furrowed eyebrows and concerned words? Call me when they manage to find enough vertebrae to form a single spine. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/13 "2021-05-12T03:49:12Z")
This isn’t doing anything though. The voting bloc that aligns with the people who wrote that letter isn’t very significant and they’re especially insignificant if they’re voting for Ronald Reagan instead of a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/14 "2021-05-12T03:50:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > As more information about Trump’s criminality comes to light, he will become less and less an influencer in upcoming elections. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Lastly, Trump will soon be deeply engaged in avoiding civil and criminal consequences for his actions. He isn’t going to have as much time for the Republican party. Yeah, yeah. I’ve been hearing this stuff since forever. We’ll be saying it in October 2024. Any minute now some powerful force will destroy him! Yeah, okay. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I am also bolstered a bit by the fact that Trump’s blog isn’t catching fire as he may have hoped This. Losing social media has wounded the man. And it’s unclear if he can come back without it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/15 "2021-05-12T03:55:04Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It might not seem like a big deal that a few RINOS or Wall St Repubs are leaving the party, but actually, it’s a crucial first step toward delegitimizing the new Trumpist brand party. I’ve been advocating this for a while. > > Trumpism has a base, and then there’s the rest of the party that cringes at what he and the base say, but do nothing else because they want access and influence within the party. They have to split the party. That gives the ones who stay less of a platform. If the rest of the party stays, it gives the batshit insane base legitimacy. They have to be isolated - not by progressives or the center left but by the center right and even the solid but otherwise sane and mostly principled right. This means people like Condy Rice, the Bushes, and others have to do more than just quietly make oblique comments about how ‘unfortunate’ the rhetoric is ‘on both sides.’ > > I mean, really, these moderates, through their ties to Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, are the ones who created what would ultimately become Trump and Trumpism; it’s their responsibility to destroy him. My feeling is that the RINOs and wall street republicans know full well a huge % of the GOP are made up of crazy, rascist fascists but they didn’t care as long as the wall street types were in control of the party. They’re not upset the GOP is full of crazies, they’re upset that the crazies are in charge now. The David Frums of the world would happily go back to the days when the crazies and fascists voted GOP in huge numbers but didn’t actually run the party. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/16 "2021-05-12T04:10:52Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Yeah, yeah. I’ve been hearing this stuff since forever. We’ll be saying it in October 2024. Any minute now some powerful force will destroy him! Yeah, okay. Access to the records and such only just got underway for Merrick Garland. There’s a reason Republicans employed every possible delaying tactic to confirm Biden’s team. Garland is actually working quite swiftly now that he is free to do so. You saw this story about Judge Amy Berman Jackson’s ruling on Barr’s misleading the country about Mueller’s report, surely: > **[Judge Says Barr Misled on How His Justice Dept. Viewed Trump’s Actions...](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/04/us/politics/barr-trump-obstruction-russia-inquiry.html)** > > Judge Amy Berman Jackson said in a ruling that the misleading statements were similar to others that William P. Barr, the former attorney general, had made about the Mueller investigation. I’d stake a lot on Garland doing nothing to prevent the release of the classified memo Barr withheld on the false basis of privileged communication, revealing one aspect of his misconduct. I’m sure you also know that Garland’s office wasted exactly 1 week from the confirmation of his Deputy AG, Lisa Monaco, before raiding Rudy Giuliani’s lairs: > **[Giuliani raid has Trumpworld on alert](https://www.vox.com/2021/5/1/22413964/rudy-giuliani-fbi-investigation-raid-ukraine)** > > Federal investigators are looking into Giuliani’s dealings in Ukraine as potential evidence of criminal conduct. Though conducted by SDNY, Garland had to sign off on a raid of a president’s lawyer. This DOJ is deadly serious. Legal actions take time. Especially when you’ve been stymied at every turn as the Biden Administration has, long before they arrived. It doesn’t make Trump’s crimes any less actionable. I believe SDNY has had its case pretty well tucked up and were only waiting for the new DOJ to get settled. I’ll be surprised if some charges aren’t laid by August. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/17 "2021-05-12T04:15:51Z")
Yeah, okay. Lotsa stuff going on. Yup. I’ll bet you One Internet Dollar that Trump himself won’t be indicted for anything by October 2024. I would gladly lose that bet. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/18 "2021-05-12T04:17:05Z")
Betting of any kind not allowed, I believe. But I’ll go along with you in spirit. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/19 "2021-05-12T04:19:39Z")
When Trump himself is indicted, we can ref this exchange and properly shame me or you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880/20 "2021-05-12T04:20:50Z")
LOL, fair enough. That’ll work. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dozens-of-republicans-threaten-to-split-from-gop/941880.md?page=2)