# Dr. Laura wants her first amendment rights back... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594 "2010-08-18T01:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/201 "2010-08-20T03:33:07Z")
Any pain she feels is self inflicted. Nobody did anything to her. She caused the mess herself. She was not unfairly attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/202 "2010-08-20T03:33:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > She is not in jail. She was not beaten up. She was free to have her say and she did. But she misread what people would think when she went there. She thought it would be a teaching opportunity. Turned out it was, I wonder if she learned anything? I don’t think she’s intelligent enough to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/203 "2010-08-20T11:08:32Z")
> [@Pastor\_Torch](#): > > I have not seen any of the civil rights which give anyone the right to an offince free life, or any recourse for being offended. You have the right to be offended, as often as you like and be get upset about anything/everything if you want too. She has the right to say what she wants on her show with very few exceptions. People who don’t like what she says have the right to say they don’t like what she says. She has the right to say they’re wrong. And so on and so on. That’s how this works. It’s that simple. > [@newcomer](#): > > Well, mounting an organized campaign using lies and misrepresentations to remove someone’s ability to be heard would be considered usurping the rights. Please show that: there is an organized campaign against her based on her statements last week, and that it’s based on lies and misrepresentations. Also please demonstrate that she has a Constitutional right to broadcast her views on the radio. Ten years ago there _was_ a campaign against her based on her comments about gay people. ([Examples here.](http://stopdrlaura.com/laura/index.htm)) Some advertisers stopped advertising on her show and stations did drop her in response to that campaign. It’s worth pointing out again that she was probably talking about her experience a decade ago and not about any kind of current campaign. The episode we’re talking about happened last week. That’s not enough time for a boycott to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/204 "2010-08-20T12:22:30Z")
The problem here is that “Dr.” Laura, like many other ill-informed mouth-breathers before her, is using “First Amendment,” as some kind of a synonym for “speech without consequences.” It would be fair to use that shorthand to mean “speech without _legal_ consequences,” although even then it would be shorthand, not an accurate statement. But as numerous others have pointed out, there is no right to be insulated from being thought a fool after saying something foolish. And there is no right to being immunized against adverse employment actions when your employers discover they have hired a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/205 "2010-08-20T13:34:58Z")
What if, instead of the fateful caller, it had been a white person complaining of being fired for asking a black coworker “how come you can say ‘nigger’ but I can’t ?” Would Dr. Laura have launched into much the same “white men can’t jump/Obama/HBO/‘nigger’, ‘nigger’, ‘nigger’’” riff, and then recommend the caller get a lawyer with experience in Constitutional law? Or would she done her usual “Quit feeling sorry for yourself” scold? What would Dr. Laura tell Dr. Laura? ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/206 "2010-08-20T14:08:31Z")
“I’m not retiring, I’m not quitting,” that means YOU FIRED!!! And good riddance! I hate her and hate her show. I can’t listen to her for 5 minutes without getting angry and yelling at the radio. She’s hot tho. Or rather, she was, dunno about nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/207 "2010-08-20T14:21:14Z")
She’s like 75 years old … if you’re into that kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/208 "2010-08-20T15:21:57Z")
I guess her view is “if you don’t like what I’m saying, debate me, or ignore me (i.e. change the radio channel).”, but should not try to shut her up. I assume she doesn’t see any difference from folks who try to convince her sponsers to pull their support, to those who would push her off the street corner soap box. I think she’s wrong, but there you go. The free market can be pretty cut throat. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/209 "2010-08-20T15:22:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The problem here is that “Dr.” Laura, like many other ill-informed mouth-breathers before her, is using “First Amendment,” as some kind of a synonym for “speech without consequences.” … there is no right to be insulated from being thought a fool … And there is no right to being immunized against adverse employment actions when your employers discover they have hired a fool. This. Exactly this. She wants government to protect HER right to say anything she wants and she wants the same government to stop anyone from saying “bad stuff” against her. She’s a hypocrite. If she lost her so called “show” good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/210 "2010-08-20T15:34:10Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > She’s a hypocrite. If she lost her so called “show” good riddance. Well, no. She’s not, unless you can show me instances where she’s tried to boycott or otherwise suppress someone else’s speech. Her position seems to be that she can say foolish things, and no one should take any action against her. I don’t get the sense that she’s saying no one should say anything critical of her; I get the sense she’s saying no one should take actions calculated to threaten her job. What would make her a hypocrite is showing that she took action against someone else based on their speech. (Which she may have, but it hasn’t been mentioned so far). ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/211 "2010-08-20T16:05:37Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > > > You know … you’re absolutely right. When do we raid Fox News? > > Care to debate? You think it’s okay if a group has enough power to silence people you disagree with? As someone has already pointed out, how is the Dr. Laura situation different from the firestorm that the Dixie Chicks created when they criticized President Bush? Didn’t radio stations stop playing their music? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/212 "2010-08-20T16:08:49Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > > [@newcomer](#): > > > > Care to debate? You think it’s okay if a group has enough power to silence people you disagree with? > > As someone has already pointed out, how is the Dr. Laura situation different from the firestorm that the Dixie Chicks created when they criticized President Bush? Didn’t radio stations stop playing their music? That’s an excellent analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/213 "2010-08-20T16:17:18Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Didn’t radio stations stop playing their music? Of course, when that happened, other commentators raised concerns not unlike Schlessinger’s – I seem to recall Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) saying that the radio ban was like Nazi Germany and the McCarthyite witch-hunts of the 1950s. According to her, it was a “chilling message to people that they ought to shut up.” And Senator John McCain (R-AZ) claimed that the Dixie Chick’s First Amendment rights were violated. So… go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/214 "2010-08-20T16:29:30Z")
Interestingly enough, the Board’s members were not always so sanguine about speech having consequences. In [this thread in 2007](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=444239), here’s what I said about the US woman’s bridge team after they held up a sign saying, “We did not vote for Bush,” and got suspended by their organization: > [@U.S. Bridge Federation slams its victorious team for "WE DID NOT VOTE FOR BUSH" sign](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-bridge-federation-slams-its-victorious-team-for-we-did-not-vote-for-bush-sign/426566/5): > > I believe in free speech, but “free speech” doesn’t immunize me from the consequences of exercising my right to free speech when representing a non-political organization of which I am a member. > > In other words: the United States Bridge Federation does not strike me as unreasonable for demanding that their representatives eschew political commentary during publicity for official bridge events. > > This is not an encroachment on the right of “free speech” as that right is generally understood. The players were there representing the organization, the event, as opposed to being there in their own persons. The organization can reasonably require that they limit their commentary to event-related platitudes, and can enforce that requirement by whatever sanctions are in their legal power to levy. > > I will say that “treason” and “sedition” are charges that are over-the-top… but of course the United States Bridge Federation is not making such charges. Many other posters disagreed with me at the time. It sure is nice to see my views on the general issue coming into acceptance. And no – no. I won’t hear any objections about the unanimous opinions now being the result of disliking Dr. laura and her message, and the mixed opinion in 2007 arising from the fact that the message then was anti-Bush, and therefore laudable. Dopers take positions based on facts; they just don’t do things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/215 "2010-08-20T16:35:08Z")
Here’s a letter Micheal Moore wrote to Bill Timmins, President of the Aladdin Casino, after Linda Ronstadt was [thrown off stage](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5086365&postcount=123) for dedicating a song to him: > [@](#): > > July 19th, 2004 9:05 pm > Open Letter to Bill Timmins, President Aladdin Casino and Hotel > Bill Timmins > President > Aladdin Casino and Hotel > Las Vegas, NV > > July 20, 2004 > > Dear Mr. Timmins: > > I understand from the news reports I’ve read that, after Linda Ronstadt, one of America’s greatest singers, dedicated a song to me from your stage on Saturday night, you instructed your security guards to remove her from the Aladdin, which they did. > > What country do you live in? Last time I checked, Las Vegas is still in the United States. And in the United States, we have something called “The First Amendment.” This constitutional right gives everyone here the right to say whatever they want to say. All Americans hold this right as sacred. Many of our young people put on a uniform and risk their lives to defend it. My film is all about asking the questions that should have been asked before those brave soldiers were sent into harms way. > > For you to throw Linda Ronstadt off the premises because she dared to say a few words in support of me and my film, is simply stupid and Un-American. Frankly, I have never heard of such a thing happening. I read that you wouldn’t even let her go back up to her room at your hotel! Are you crazy? For crying out loud, it was a song DEDICATION! To “Desperado!” Every American loves that song! Sure, some people didn’t like the dedication, and that’s their right. But neither they nor you have the right to remove her from your building when all she did was exercise her AMERICAN right to speak her mind. > > Of all the things that go on in Las Vegas, this is what creates the need for serious action? What about the other half of the crowd at the Aladdin who, according to the Las Vegas Sun, cheered her when she made her remarks? Did you throw them out, too? > > I think you owe Ms. Ronstadt an apology. And I have an idea how you can make it up to her – and to the millions of Americans you have offended. Invite her back and I’ll join her in singing “America the Beautiful” on your stage. Then I will show “Fahrenheit 9/11” free of charge to all your guests and anyone else in Las Vegas who wants to see it. > > Mr. Timmins, as the song “Desperado” says – “Come to your senses!” How can you refuse this offer? I await your reply. > > Yours, > Michael Moore > Director, “Fahrenheit 9/11” So it seems that Mr. Moore was also confused about the First Amendment. How unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/216 "2010-08-20T16:37:06Z")
Do you think Michael Moore is considered an unimpeachable moral authority around here, **Bricker**? It’s not 2002. From what I can tell, a lot of people regard him as a jerk who is correct about some issues. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/217 "2010-08-20T16:43:29Z")
I would say that there’s obviously an argument to be had about whether these kind of public reactions to Dr. Laura, or the Dixie Chicks or the US Bridge team are productive or healthy for society, and whether the specific incidents of speech warrant the kind of reactions they get. What isn’t really debatable is whether these actions are legal. Of course they are. Spare me your sanctimony. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/218 "2010-08-20T16:44:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Dopers take positions based on facts; they just don’t do things like that. But apparently _tu quoque_ remains fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/219 "2010-08-20T17:04:12Z")
I thought everyone knew you couldn’t shout _nigger_ in a crowded radio station. > [@Bricker](#): > > So it seems that Mr. Moore was also confused about the First Amendment. How unfortunate. Perhaps when he gets on national television to bitch about the right he perceives are being curtailed, you can start a thread about him. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/220 "2010-08-20T17:15:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > She’s a hypocrite. If she lost her so called “show” good riddance. > > Well, no. She’s not, unless you can show me instances where she’s tried to boycott or otherwise suppress someone else’s speech. Her position seems to be that she can say foolish things, and no one should take any action against her. > > I don’t get the sense that she’s saying no one should say anything critical of her; I get the sense she’s saying no one should take actions calculated to threaten her job. > > What would make her a hypocrite is showing that she took action against someone else based on their speech. (Which she may have, but it hasn’t been mentioned so far). Um. You do realize that the “actions calculated to threaten her job” that she is complaining about are people “say[ing] anything critical of her”, right? Specifically, they’re saying critical things about her to her sponsors. So yeah. By your own definition: hypocrite city. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=12)