# Dr. Laura wants her first amendment rights back... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594 "2010-08-18T01:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/41 "2010-08-18T13:46:39Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > I can’t stand her show personally, but I have to side with her on one point. > > No words (in any language) should ever have their usage restricted by race. End of story. No words do. If you want to call black people “niggers,” no one is stopping you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/42 "2010-08-18T13:48:29Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I actually have more respect for Don Imus in this case. At least he managed to fess up to his mistake, apologized to the team (in person no less) and at no point played the victim card. I’m not defending what he did, but he did handle the situation pretty much as well as anyone in his position could have (and still got fired for it). Imus got fired because he lost his sponsors. That’s what really matters. If you cost your employer money, you aren’t going to work. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/43 "2010-08-18T13:48:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > This is false. She has a post-doctoral certification in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling from the University of Southern California. where she was also a faculty member. Get your facts right next time. > > This is an absolutely meaningless, made up, bullshit credential. The “post-doctoral” part doesn’t mean anything except that she bought it after she had her doctorate. Anybody else can buy one too. It means nothing. She is completely uncredentialed and her “advice” is completely at odds with everything in the legitimate mental health. She’s a fraud, and if she actually did have any clinical credentials, should would have had them stripped by now. [University of Southern California](http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings) is ranked 23 in the nation by US News & World Report. I don’t believe your claim that anyone can buy such a certification. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/44 "2010-08-18T13:59:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > This is false. She has a post-doctoral certification in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling from the University of Southern California. where she was also a faculty member. Get your facts right next time. > > This is an absolutely meaningless, made up, bullshit credential. The “post-doctoral” part doesn’t mean anything except that she bought it after she had her doctorate. Anybody else can buy one too. It means nothing. She is completely uncredentialed and her “advice” is completely at odds with everything in the legitimate mental health. She’s a fraud, and if she actually did have any clinical credentials, should would have had them stripped by now. Looking over USC’s website, it seems that their program in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling requires 50 post-graduate class hours, along with a whole bunch of other stuff. This is completely inconsistent with your claim. What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/45 "2010-08-18T14:22:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [What am I missing here? You are aware that **Dio** knows everything, right? Sorry you had to waste your time “doing research” and “assessing factual information” — but **Dio** has already spoken. Better luck next time! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/46 "2010-08-18T14:23:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What am I missing here? You aren’t missing anything. We’ve entered into **Diogenes** -land, where the facts don’t matter. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/47 "2010-08-18T14:38:26Z")
Wake me up when we stop quibbling over Dr. Laura’s “qualifications” and we get back to how she’s a whining harpie with a persecution complex. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/48 "2010-08-18T14:40:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What am I missing here? Because USC paid off Reggie Bush under the table, the NCAA ruled they’re not allowed to be in the Top 25. Of anything. The NCAA is _harsh_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/49 "2010-08-18T14:54:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > This is an absolutely meaningless, made up, bullshit credential. The “post-doctoral” part doesn’t mean anything except that she bought it after she had her doctorate. Anybody else can buy one too. It means nothing. She is completely uncredentialed and her “advice” is completely at odds with everything in the legitimate mental health. She’s a fraud, and if she actually did have any clinical credentials, should would have had them stripped by now. > > Looking over USC’s website, it seems that their program in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling requires 50 post-graduate class hours, along with a whole bunch of other stuff. This is completely inconsistent with your claim. > > What am I missing here? Their program to receive WHAt requires 50 post-graduate hours? What is a “certificate,” and what does it mean for a university to “certify” anybody? What certification does she actually have from any licensing body? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/50 "2010-08-18T14:55:02Z")
I find it interesting that Schlessinger thinks she can find a place where she can spout off about things and no one could possibly get angry or tired of hearing it. To oppose her, to disagree, to get angry, all of these things infringe on her rights. All of these things are only possible because she’s on the radio and she’s under attack. Well, I suppose it’s true that I never would have heard of her if she hadn’t been on the radio, so I wouldn’t know to oppose her, to disagree, or to get angry. But I’m not on the radio, and plenty of people oppose me, disagree, and get angry at what I say. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/51 "2010-08-18T15:01:48Z")
Well, it’s true at least that the “post-doctoral” part is meaningless. Nobody uses such a construction except in describing Schlessinger’s credential specifically. Not only that, almost all such references use _precisely_ the same construction **Shodan** did (“certification” instead of “certificate,” etc.), suggesting that they all copied and pasted from one another. It makes me wonder exactly where the characterization originated. Also, it seems her claims to be a “licensed psychotherapist” are inaccurate because she never held a _license_, per se–just the certificate. The state Board of Psychology site says such licensing would require not just a 50-hour certificate program, but a full-fledged doctoral degree program (in psychology or education) plus a 3000-hour internship plus a state licensing exam. At a minimum, it seems reasonable to say that Schlessinger plays fast and loose in describing her qualifications. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/52 "2010-08-18T15:26:41Z")
I don’t think what she said was all that bad. I listen to talk radio. Her show used to be on the main talk radio station I listen to. Quite a few years back I heard a caller ask for some advice from Dr. Laura, and from that point on I knew she was batty. Paraphrasing, the caller said: "My husband gets together with a few of his old college buddies once a year. They take turns hosting and cooking a gourmet meal for each other and end up drinking and getting drunk. This year I asked if I could attend, and my husband said ‘Sure, there’s no reason why you can’t come along’ and so I did. Well, they ended up drinking all night and smoking cigars and getting really drunk together. When I mentioned to my husband that this bothered me, he got all defensive and said, it only happens once a year. What’s the big deal? Dr, Laura’s response: "Your husband has a substance abuse problem and if he can’t see that then it’s up to you to point it out to him and get him help. There’s no reason why a group of grown men should behave this way unless they have substance abuse issues. Once a year? WTF? My advice would have been, “How about next year you just stay home and let him enjoy himself for a night?” I never listened to her again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/53 "2010-08-18T15:28:18Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Well, it’s true at least that the “post-doctoral” part is meaningless. Nobody uses such a construction except in describing Schlessinger’s credential specifically. No, I am afraid that is not true at all - [cite](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postdocjobs.com%2F&ei=pfprTNvtBYmtngfB5omPAg&usg=AFQjCNGSHMtyI0QDWjteltw9uQBmV-2ppw&sig2=J6FOj5gBUaQ-ZJR_M-I9gA), [cite](http://www.nationalpostdoc.org/), [cite](http://gap.stanford.edu/5-11.html), [cite](http://gradprograms.med.wayne.edu/degree.php), [cite,](http://www.degreetutor.com/online-programs/health-medical/psychology/cert-psychrespecialization-fielding) etc. While I certainly agree that there is a certain amount of playing fast and loose with the facts here, it is not Dr. Laura Schlesinger who is doing so. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/54 "2010-08-18T15:52:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@spark240](#): > > > > Well, it’s true at least that the “post-doctoral” part is meaningless. Nobody uses such a construction except in describing Schlessinger’s credential specifically. > > No, I am afraid that is not true at all - [cite](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postdocjobs.com%2F&ei=pfprTNvtBYmtngfB5omPAg&usg=AFQjCNGSHMtyI0QDWjteltw9uQBmV-2ppw&sig2=J6FOj5gBUaQ-ZJR_M-I9gA), [cite](http://www.nationalpostdoc.org/), [cite](http://gap.stanford.edu/5-11.html), [cite](http://gradprograms.med.wayne.edu/degree.php), [cite,](http://www.degreetutor.com/online-programs/health-medical/psychology/cert-psychrespecialization-fielding) etc. Those cites prove that there is such a phrase as “post doctoral”, but that doesn’t address **spark’s** observation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/55 "2010-08-18T15:56:16Z")
The word “post-doctoral” is used in conjunction with continuing education and specializations for people who already have relevant doctorates, but there’s no such thing as a “post-doctoral certification” in family counselling as opposed to just a regular certificaftion. That’s a completely invented construction. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/56 "2010-08-18T15:56:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Looking over USC’s website, it seems that their program in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling requires 50 post-graduate class hours, along with a whole bunch of other stuff. This is completely inconsistent with your claim. > > > > What am I missing here? > > Their program to receive WHAt requires 50 post-graduate hours? What is a “certificate,” and what does it mean for a university to “certify” anybody? What certification does she actually have from any licensing body? Here’s a [general description](http://www.xomba.com/postdoctoral_certificate): > [@](#): > > A post-doctoral certificate degree in most fields of discipline such as medicine, dentistry, education, accounting, clinical psychology, and in some other uncategorized classification of courses such as clinical assessment, child psychology and online teaching and training, to name a few, are just some of the courses wherein the graduate student gets to choose to enroll. The purpose of these post-doctoral graduate certificate courses is to further improve the expertise of the PhD holder for them to be able to contribute their knowledge for the ultimate benefit of man and his world that he or she lives in. > > For those who are in the field of medicine, a certification in research is needed as prerequisite for the certificate programs in the areas of medical research, advanced technology, chemistry, cancer and educational techniques. These courses can easily be completed in a span of two years and these can be inserted in the schedule of the students at their convenient time since most of these post-graduate students are working professionals already. > > There are a lot of required courses in research and advanced research such as ethics, career advancement, public speaking, individual development plan, supervised research, many electives, poster presentation, and lots of seminar series for the really hardcore learning experiences. For those who are into advanced technology, the coursework includes advanced synthesis and catalysis, basic principles of NMR, chemical neurotransmission, chemical structure and reactivity, chemical synthesis, magnetic resonance spectroscopy, molecular biophysics, protein structure and folding, x-ray crystallography, and more seminar series for actual practical demonstrations and hands-on training for the graduate students. > > For those who choose the post-doctoral certificate in cancer, they are expected to join the activities of the cancer SMIG, such as the completion of the online cancer knowledge and attitude probe at the start and conclusion of the cancer certificate program, cancer center scientific retreat, convergence learning community days, and the cancer online course.For those in the field of chemistry, the subjects take in mostly the same as the certificate in cancer course with just a little deviation.What defines this course is when the experiences and the application are studied, then that’s the time that the students’ eyes are geared to see the learning that they require. For the post-doctoral certificate degree in educational techniques, they are anticipated to learn and put into practice the best and most effective teaching learning processes. The teacher thus becomes the best means for which to facilitate the best learning inside the classroom. For the business moguls, the best choice would be the certificate programs in accounting and business administration so that they will all the more learn how to make money and profit for their organization. [Here’s a description](http://www.pcom.edu/admissions/Post_Doctoral_Certificate_Programs.html) of a specific post-doctoral certification offered by another school: > [@](#): > > The post - doctoral certificates in Clinical Health Psychology and Clinical Neuropsychology each provide one year (16 and 19 credits respectively) of specialty training to candidates who have received a doctorate (PsyD or PhD) in clinical psychology. These programs are designed to provide advanced, specialized training and post-doctoral clinical hours that students may apply toward licensure in psychology (check with individual states for specific requirements) and/or toward future board certification by the American Board of Professional Psychology. Post-doctoral students receive advanced clinical training and supervision at clinical training sites throughout the Philadelphia metropolitan area. > . > . > . > An applicant must have completed a doctoral degree in clinical psychology from a regionally accredited institution, with a B average or better. > > Applicants with doctoral degrees in other specialty areas will be considered on a case-by-case basis. > > The Admissions Committee evaluates applicants on a number of factors. These include: past academic performance, letters of recommendation and the corresponding PCOM recommendation forms, the content and writing style of personal statements, prior work history and volunteer experiences, research activities and publications, presentations at workshops or conferences in psychology or a related field, membership in professional organizations, and personal and professional presentation in the interview. Intellectual ability, academic potential, emotional stability, maturity, integrity, motivation and high ethical standards are necessary for successful program completion and acceptance into the professional community. [Here’s a dentist](http://www.baumorthodontics.com/pages/meet.htm) with a post-doctoral certificate in Orthodontics – from USC, interestingly enough, where he also TAUGHT taught Orthodontics. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/57 "2010-08-18T15:58:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Those cites prove that there is such a phrase as “post doctoral”, but that doesn’t address **spark’s** observation. But my post’s dentist does. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/58 "2010-08-18T16:06:41Z")
No it doesn’t. There’s nothing in any of that about her fake, bullshit, imaginary “counselling” certificate, and I don’t see how she could have qualified for a post-doctoral program in that direction anyway since she did not have a relevant doctorate to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/59 "2010-08-18T16:10:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > Those cites prove that there is such a phrase as “post doctoral”, but that doesn’t address **spark’s** observation. > > But my post’s dentist does. Seems to me the case here is that the guy was a dentist and properly licensed as such then got further training in a specific area of dentistry. This would be akin to you becoming and attorney (going to school and passing the Bar exam) and then down the road getting further education in Anti-Trust law. Now, if you got your J.D. and then took a post-doc in family counseling I would not say you are a doctor of family counseling. Indeed you would have minimal experience as a family counselor. That you can technically apply the “Dr.”\* to your name might meet the letter of the law (so to speak) but hardly the spirit of it. Doing so would be misleading. \*Note: I have always been a bit unclear if attorneys are technically allowed to apply “Dr.” to their names. IIRC a J.D. is a graduate degree and stands for “Juris Doctor”. That said I never see any attorneys do that. Whatever the case I hope the sense of what I was getting at above is clear without a need to nit-pick the particulars. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/60 "2010-08-18T16:14:36Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Well, it’s true at least that the “post-doctoral” part is meaningless. Nobody uses such a construction except in describing Schlessinger’s credential specifically. N > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > No, I am afraid that is not true at all - [cite](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postdocjobs.com%2F&ei=pfprTNvtBYmtngfB5omPAg&usg=AFQjCNGSHMtyI0QDWjteltw9uQBmV-2ppw&sig2=J6FOj5gBUaQ-ZJR_M-I9gA), [cite](http://www.nationalpostdoc.org/), [cite](http://gap.stanford.edu/5-11.html), [cite](http://gradprograms.med.wayne.edu/degree.php), [cite,](http://www.degreetutor.com/online-programs/health-medical/psychology/cert-psychrespecialization-fielding) etc. > > Those cites prove that there is such a phrase as “post doctoral”, but that doesn’t address **spark’s** observation. > [@Bricker](#): > > But my post’s dentist does. > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > [Here’s a dentist](http://www.baumorthodontics.com/pages/meet.htm) with a post-doctoral certificate in Orthodontics – from USC, interestingly enough, where he also TAUGHT taught Orthodontics. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it doesn’t. Yes, it does. This is a person other than Schlesinger that uses the same construction. That contradicts **spark240** ’s observation. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s nothing in any of that about her fake, bullshit, imaginary “counselling” certificate, and I don’t see how she could have qualified for a post-doctoral program in that direction anyway since she did not have a relevant doctorate to begin with. From my [cite above](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12814211&postcount=56): > [@](#): > > Applicants with doctoral degrees in other specialty areas will be considered on a case-by-case basis. So I have shown you that such things as post-doctoral certifications [exist](http://www.xomba.com/postdoctoral_certificate), that they require [hours](http://www.pcom.edu/admissions/Post_Doctoral_Certificate_Programs.html) of study as opposed to simply writing a check, and that it’s possible to receive one even if your doctoral degree is in [another specialty area](http://www.pcom.edu/admissions/Post_Doctoral_Certificate_Programs.html). In response, you have simply continued to deny the possibility, without providing any evidence or citation to support your position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=4)