# Dr. Laura wants her first amendment rights back... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594 "2010-08-18T01:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/81 "2010-08-18T17:38:21Z")
It’s not a program offered by USC. ETA Nothing in your cite says anything about “post-doctorate,” by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/82 "2010-08-18T17:38:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Show the proof that she was ever in one of those programs. USC does not appear to offer the particular certification she claims to have gotten there, and we already know that’s she’s outright lied about her qualifications before (falsely claiming to be a "licensed psychotherapist), so what is the actual proof, beyond her own claim on her website, that she actually has any such certification. I’m calling bullshit on it. I don’t believe it exists, and she would not have been qualified for any such program even if it did exist. What kind of proof are you looking for? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/83 "2010-08-18T17:40:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Is, or is not, Dr. Laura a "“licensed psychotherapist”? She was a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, which certainly could be considered a form of [psychotherapy](http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=33209). She does indeed hold the post-doctoral certification that **Diogenes** unfortunately persists in denying. She let her license lapse when she left private practice. She was on the graduate psychology faculty at Pepperdine University. She has never claimed ot be an MD or anything like that, if that is what you are getting at. If you have an actual cite where she claims to be a “licensed psychotherapist”, then by all means produce it, along with the context, so we can see if this actually means anything. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/84 "2010-08-18T17:40:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not a program offered by USC. Not now. Bu they offer a Marriage and Family Therapy program, and I have shown you proof that this is the new name for Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/85 "2010-08-18T17:41:15Z")
> [@No direct personal insults or "flaming" in great debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-personal-insults-or-flaming-in-great-debates/210240/3): > > … if you’re going to discuss someone’s bowels or genitalia at all, it better be DIRECTLY relevant to the debate at hand. My material has just been cut in half. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/86 "2010-08-18T17:42:27Z")
How about some confirmation from USC that it ever offered such a program, and that she completed it. Her own credibility is highly compromised by the fact that she is already known to have falsified her credentials in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/87 "2010-08-18T17:44:07Z")
She was never licensed in anything, ever. ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/88 "2010-08-18T17:44:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@capeo](#): > > > > All a post-doctorate certificate signifies is that you took a certificate class. It’s quite simple. > > Cite? Here is my [cite to the contrary](http://www.pcom.edu/admissions/Post_Doctoral_Certificate_Programs.html), showing more extensive requirements than “took a certificate class.” > > Where is your cite for your claim? I don’t need a cite when yours says exactly what I said already. I clearly stated that some certificate requirements are extensive and that the certificates themselves are required for licensing in some fields. I don’t see the issue here. The simple fact is this woman is not a psychologist in any way shape or form and has never been licensed in any state. In fact, unless USCs requirements are less stringent than PCOMs she shouldn’t even be able to take the course because she doesn’t have a doctorate in psychology at all. Hell, I decided to look into that. It seems USC doesn’t offer any “post doctoral certifications” in Theories of Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling at all. It only offers a Course of Instruction on it so she’s probably lying about that anyway. [http://www.usc.edu/dept/publications/cat99/education/index.html](http://www.usc.edu/dept/publications/cat99/education/index.html) Courses of instruction require no degree in the field they pertain to. In other words, anyone can take them with department permission. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/89 "2010-08-18T17:45:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > It’s not a program offered by USC. > > Not now. Bu they offer a Marriage and Family Therapy program, and I have shown you proof that this is the new name for Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling. Show me where it says anything about that being a post-doctoral program. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/90 "2010-08-18T17:47:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How about some confirmation from USC that it ever offered such a program, and that she completed it. > > Her own credibility is highly compromised by the fact that she is already known to have falsified her credentials in the past. So to be clear, the only evidence acceptable to you is a statement from USC? If I e-mail USC and get an answer, and report here on the result, will that be acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/91 "2010-08-18T17:50:37Z")
Why debate the credentials? Howard Stern gives out advice all the time. No outrage that he never had a lisence/certificate/doctorate appears to be rampant in the interwebs. Granted, he never claims to hold any lisence, but so what? It’s just another radio hosts opinion. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/92 "2010-08-18T17:50:54Z")
Re Dr. Laura she was huge 10 years ago then just went off the radar. Per the transcript she’s was behaving like a complete jackass, but lest we demonize her too much, I’m not particularly religious, but I did listen to her show on AM many years ago and she did offer quick and practical relationship advice to many callers who called in with insoluble personal muddles. After their tale of woe she would reduce the choices down to “Do X or Y” you’ve got to make a choice and take a stand if you want this to change. The reason for listening to show came next when the callers would then go “Bwah?.. Make…a… choice? Take a stand?.. but I can’t!” The fascinating thing was that many of these insoluble complexities were due to to people simply not wanting to take action or do the hard thing. People just wanted to be weenies and hope for the best. It was an interesting insight into human nature. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/93 "2010-08-18T18:03:21Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > And I was expecting a lot worse. Sure, she got off on a tangent about how so many people think things are racist when they are not, and brought up that even the most racist word “nigger” is only racist if said by white people. > > > > And then the caller treated her like she actually used the word as a cuss word, so she called them on it. > > > > Was she saying the word for shock value? Of course. But she didn’t use it as a cuss word. Should I now be kicked off the Dope because I used the word above? Or should you, like intelligent people, care more about how I’m using it, instead of what word is being said? > > > > The Don Imus quote was a lot worse–it actually was intended as a slam against someone. > > For me it’s not about her use of the word, it’s about how completely batshit insane she sounded responding to a woman’s concerns about (probably) real racism with a non-sequitur rant about Obama and interracial marriage and a bunch of other stupid shit that had no relevance to the conversation. She didn’t ask the lady what had happened, she _assumed_ she was being oversensitive, completely railroaded her every response and chalked it all up to ‘‘black think.’’ I mean that lady literally got maybe three meaningful words out of her mouth before Dr. Laura spewed all over her. We have no idea what that woman’s true situation is because she never got a chance to explain it. Dr. Laura wasn’t interested in addressing it, Dr. Laura was interested in expressing her beliefs about how oversensitive black people are. And when the woman said that she found Dr. Laura’s use of the word ‘‘shocking,’’ she _persisted in using the word_, which is a flat-out asshole thing to do. > > Dr. Laura’s conduct, taken as a whole, suggests a complete lack of compassion, something I know you and I both value. There is no defense for it. Exactly. I agree with some of the other posters here that if she had used the n-word as a spring board for an intelligent discussion on race, she would have been all right. But from what I heard, she basically used this woman’s complaint about her husband’s friends using racial epithets as an opportunity to issue a tu quoque argument about how because black comedians use the n-word that makes all right for anyone else to say it in any context. Never mind that the caller never said or otherwise indicated that she approved of blacks saying it. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/94 "2010-08-18T18:10:35Z")
Gah. I can’t spell fer sheet. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/95 "2010-08-18T18:16:46Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Why debate the credentials? > > Howard Stern gives out advice all the time. No outrage that he never had a lisence/certificate/doctorate appears to be rampant in the interwebs. Granted, he never claims to hold any lisence, but so what? It’s just another radio hosts opinion. She’s free to give advice. It is just misleading to have her call herself Doctor Laura. While she does have a PhD it is misleading in the context of her personal advice show. Imagine I got a PhD in Archaeology. Would it be ok for me to open up a marriage counseling business and put Dr. Whack-a-Mole on the door? I do no explicitly state I am a doctor of psychology or therapy or whatever. It is more a lie of omission. Most people will assume Dr. Whack-a-Mole’s marriage counseling is run by someone with a PhD in counseling (or whatever covers that). Me taking 50 hours of credit from a university in that field does not change that. Howard Stern makes no pretense at being an expert in the advice giving field. Anyone calling him for advice is perfectly aware of who he is and what his credentials (or rather lack of them in the counseling field) are. ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/96 "2010-08-18T18:17:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > Is, or is not, Dr. Laura a "“licensed psychotherapist”? > > She was a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, which certainly could be considered a form of [psychotherapy](http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=33209). She does indeed hold the post-doctoral certification that **Diogenes** unfortunately persists in denying. She let her license lapse when she left private practice. > > She was on the graduate psychology faculty at Pepperdine University. > > She has never claimed ot be an MD or anything like that, if that is what you are getting at. > > If you have an actual cite where she claims to be a “licensed psychotherapist”, then by all means produce it, along with the context, so we can see if this actually means anything. > > Regards, > Shodan She claims it in her book The Ten Commandments. Which is illegal in California by the way. She has NEVER had a license in psychotherapy because she has no degree in psychotherapy as I have already stated. You don’t need shit to be a marriage counselor. It’s a two year degree in California today and the requirements must have been less when she had a practice because she doesn’t even have said degree. Apparently the certification course was enough then. And she must have been one hell of a marriage counselor seeing as she cheated on her husband with two different men at that time and then went on to hook up with a married man. Also, the only place that says she was “on the faculty” of Pepperdine is her own written bio. The only actual thing I can find is that she spoke there as a guest speaker. If you have something besides that I’d love to see it because I find it hard to believe Pepperdine would have someone who doesn’t even have a degree in psychology teaching psychology. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/97 "2010-08-18T18:22:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you have an actual cite where she claims to be a “licensed psychotherapist”, then by all means produce it, along with the context, so we can see if this actually means anything. - [The Ten Commandments: The Significance of God’s Laws in Everyday Life](http://books.google.com/books?id=ZYmHrKEJ-ooC&pg=PR19&lpg=PR19&dq=%22licensed+psychotherapist%22+%22laura+schlessinger%22&source=bl&ots=sDCLa13O1E&sig=R9rcFGmUqT0Ew6IPdU9lb43sK7E&hl=en&ei=pCNsTKz7KoK8lQfVppjuDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CD0Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)\*[by Laura Schlessinger, Stewart Vogel](http://books.google.com/books?id=ZYmHrKEJ-ooC&pg=PR19&lpg=PR19&dq=%22licensed+psychotherapist%22+%22laura+schlessinger%22&source=bl&ots=sDCLa13O1E&sig=R9rcFGmUqT0Ew6IPdU9lb43sK7E&hl=en&ei=pCNsTKz7KoK8lQfVppjuDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CD0Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/98 "2010-08-18T18:22:23Z")
The First Amendment really doesn’t enter into this. The issue is that she’s somewhat famous, therefore people pay attention to what she says and there is a backlash if she offends people. She can’t get away with some things that a private citizen can get away with. The problem is _having people pay attention to you is the whole point of being famous._ She’s not going to give that up. What she really means is that she only wants positive responses from a friendly audience. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/99 "2010-08-18T18:27:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Her own credibility is highly compromised by the fact that she is already known to have falsified her credentials in the past. Excellent point, “Expert” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/100 "2010-08-18T18:38:41Z")
> [@capeo](#): > > She claims it in her book The Ten Commandments. Could I see a cite, please? > [@](#): > > Which is illegal in California by the way. She has NEVER had a license in psychotherapy because she has no degree in psychotherapy as I have already stated. Again, I would like to see a cite that it is illegal to refer to yourself as a psychotherapist if you have a post-doctoral certification. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=6)