# Dr. Laura wants her first amendment rights back... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594 "2010-08-18T01:27:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/101 "2010-08-18T18:39:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If an individual has filed a complaint with the FCC, that does not constitute a rational basis for saying the government is attacking her. I said acting not attacking but the difference between the two is a matter of viewpoint. Suppose I was a hardcore racist. And I had a radio show carried on a hundred affiliates. And the message I was conveying via my radio broadcasts was “White people should rule America. Vote all niggers out of office.” Obviously, an extremely offensive message conveyed in an extremely offensive manner. But nonetheless a political message that is not advocating anything illegal. Now if the FCC said that they were going to cancel the licenses of any radio station that broadcast my message then, in my opinion, I would feel that I had valid ground for saying my first amendment rights were being violated. The government would be taking action to prevent me from broadcasting a legal political message. And it would not be unreasonable for me to claim that the government was attacking me and my message. So I might decide to leave my radio show and convey my message via print where the government has less ability to take action against me. I’m not saying that this is the same situation that Schlessinger is in. But nobody has shown that it isn’t. Is this just other individuals responding to what she said or has there been any government involvement? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/102 "2010-08-18T18:40:51Z")
> [@No direct personal insults or "flaming" in great debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-direct-personal-insults-or-flaming-in-great-debates/210240/3): > > In fact, if you’re going to discuss someone’s bowels or genitalia at all, it better be DIRECTLY relevant to the debate at hand. Wasn’t Dr. Laura hot in that one picture where she showed off her…well, good thing it wasn’t the first thing **Gaudere** mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/103 "2010-08-18T18:41:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Her own credibility is highly compromised by the fact that she is already known to have falsified her credentials in the past. Again, please provide a cite that she falsified her credentials. Here’s a quick hint - saying that she is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist is not falsification. Nor is referring to yourself as Dr. when you have a PhD in physiology. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/104 "2010-08-18T18:51:41Z")
Does the word “licensed” no longer have a meaning? Sigh… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/105 "2010-08-18T18:52:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@capeo](#): > > > > She claims it in her book The Ten Commandments. > > Could I see a cite, please? _Pssst. Post #97_ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/106 "2010-08-18T18:52:36Z")
She doesn’t have a post-doctoral certification. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/107 "2010-08-18T18:52:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But if you claim that she has a felony record, then you better be able to back that up. That’s a factual claim. If you claim she never appeared on the Larry King show, you better be able to deal in good faith with evidence showing that she has. First of all, you were quoting me, not **conway**. Not sure how that happened. Secondly, I’m all for finding out the facts. Have at it. I’m just saying that this particular fact seems very unimportant. Either she’s not qualified to offer help, in which case she shouldn’t be, or she is qualified, in which case she’s doing a very poor job of it. And if the truth is somewhere inbetween, does it really matter? In any possible scenario, she’s still offensive. Would you rather go under the knife of a licensed surgeon who kills 100% of his patients, or some random schmoe, who also kills 100% of his patients? Which one is less qualified to perform surgery? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/108 "2010-08-18T18:53:23Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] She’s free to give advice. It is just misleading to have her call herself Doctor Laura. While she does have a PhD it is misleading in the context of her personal advice show. Imagine I got a PhD in Archaeology. Would it be ok for me to open up a marriage counseling business and put Dr. Whack-a-Mole on the door? I do no explicitly state I am a doctor of psychology or therapy or whatever. It is more a lie of omission. Most people will assume Dr. Whack-a-Mole’s marriage counseling is run by someone with a PhD in counseling (or whatever covers that). Me taking 50 hours of credit from a university in that field does not change that. Howard Stern makes no pretense at being an expert in the advice giving field. Anyone calling him for advice is perfectly aware of who he is and what his credentials (or rather lack of them in the counseling field) are. [/QUOTE] Even _with_ a doctorate in family counciling/therapy, getting meaningfull advice based on a 10 minute (if that) phone call is pretty much worth what you paid for it. In other words: It’s just another person’s (probably ill-informed) opinion. I know this. You (probably) know this. Most listeners (probably) know this. I wouldn’t care if her doctorate is in nutrition, or whatever. She’s now, bluntly speaking, in the entertainment buisness. I honestly think that this diversion into credentials is an “attack the messenger” instead of a debate on the message. Folks around here don’t like her, so they look for ways to discredit her, and use that as an excuse to disregard anything she says without having to really think about it. For example, someone mentioned her [marriage] infidelities. Seems to me, someone who says “Don’t do this. I know. I’ve done it, and I can tell you that it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.” has more buisness giving advice than someone who had led a saintly married life. Aren’t we supposed to not hold someone’s impulsive youth against them later? (“I smoked, but I didn’t inhale…” 😛 ) I won’t defend her latest gaff, but she ain’t Hitler, either. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/109 "2010-08-18T18:53:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > > > Her own credibility is highly compromised by the fact that she is already known to have falsified her credentials in the past. > > Again, please provide a cite that she falsified her credentials. Here’s a quick hint - saying that she is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist is not falsification. Yes it is. She has never been licensed in any state or by any licensing board. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/110 "2010-08-18T18:54:28Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Would you rather go under the knife of a licensed surgeon who kills 100% of his patients, or some random schmoe, who also kills 100% of his patients? Which one is less qualified to perform surgery? I’d actually prefer the random schmoe - he might mess up and break his record. What was the question again? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/111 "2010-08-18T18:58:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Could I see a cite, please? > > _Pssst. Post #97_ She also falsely claims to be a college professor on that same page of her book. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/112 "2010-08-18T18:59:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > How about some confirmation from USC that it ever offered such a program, and that she completed it. > > > > Her own credibility is highly compromised by the fact that she is already known to have falsified her credentials in the past. > > So to be clear, the only evidence acceptable to you is a statement from USC? > > If I e-mail USC and get an answer, and report here on the result, will that be acceptable? Well? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/113 "2010-08-18T19:01:36Z")
Sure, email USC and get some confirmation that she has anything which could be accurately described as “post-doctoral certification” in marriage or family counselling. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/114 "2010-08-18T19:03:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not saying that this is the same situation that Schlessinger is in. But nobody has shown that it isn’t. Is this just other individuals responding to what she said or has there been any government involvement? The FCC would not threaten to pull the license of anyone who broadcast a show. If they did get involved in this situation, such as by investigating or issuing a fine, they would announce it themselves and it would not be a secret. And Schlessinger would certainly be making it clear that the government was getting involved. [Here’s a transcript from Media Matters of her Larry King appearance.](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201008170062) She is clearly not talking about the government: “I want to be able to say what’s on my mind, and in my heart, what I think is helpful and useful without somebody getting angry, some special interest group deciding this is a time to silence a voice of dissent, and attack affiliates and attack sponsors. […] You know, when I started in radio, if you said something somebody didn’t agree with and they didn’t like, they argued with you. Now, they try to silence you. They try to wipe out your ability to earn a living and to have your job. They go after affiliates. They send threats to sponsors.” [By the way, here is a complete transcript of the call with Jade.](http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008120045) ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/115 "2010-08-18T19:05:16Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Aren’t we supposed to not hold someone’s impulsive youth against them later? (“I smoked, but I didn’t inhale…” 😛 ) I won’t defend her latest gaff, but she ain’t Hitler, either. [/QUOTE] You know who else wasn’t Hitler when he was younger? Hitler! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/116 "2010-08-18T19:10:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Again, please provide a cite that she falsified her credentials. Here’s a quick hint - saying that she is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist is not falsification. > > Yes it is. She has never been licensed in any state or by any licensing board. Please provide a cite, then. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/117 "2010-08-18T19:11:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@capeo](#): > > > > She claims it in her book The Ten Commandments. > > Could I see a cite, please? > > > [@](#): > > > > Which is illegal in California by the way. She has NEVER had a license in psychotherapy because she has no degree in psychotherapy as I have already stated. > > Again, I would like to see a cite that it is illegal to refer to yourself as a psychotherapist if you have a post-doctoral certification. > > Regards, > Shodan Post 97 and a quick google search. As for the illegality? Do you really have to ask if it is illegal to represent yourself as a licensed medical provider when you are not? Here’s some clarification from a quick search (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > The title “psychologist” is protected by California law, and is reserved for doctors trained in professional psychology and licensed by the Board of Psychology(BOP) to diagnose and treat mental and emotional problems. All of the states delineate similar requirements in order to practice psychology. (Neuropsychologists are licensed psychologists with extensive training in neuroscience and brain-behavior relationships that is in addition to their training as psychologists. Neuropsychologists are minimally required to be doctors who hold a license through the BOP.) > > Consumers may be understandably confused because the title “psychologist” is often erroneously used to refer to those who are not doctors, and do not hold a clinical license. For example, a “school psychologist” typically holds a master’s degree and is not licensed (see “What is a School Psychologist” below). **To make matters even more complicated, other master’s level practitioners such as social workers (LCSW), marriage & family therapists (MFT), and licensed educational psychologists (LEP) sometimes incorrectly identify themselves as psychologists.** LEPs, LCSWs and MFTs are licensed by the Board of Behavioral Sciences. > > The differences? Too many to mention, but simply put (and probably most understandable to the layperson), is the amount and difficulty level of the training involved. A master’s degree in psychology generally takes 2 years to complete, whereas a doctorate takes an additional 4-6 years of training past the master’s level. Besides doctoral-level coursework, the Ph.D. in professional psychology requires prolonged supervised fieldwork. It also requires training as a scientist…in research methodology and statistics, as well as completion of a major research project (dissertation). Additionally, the doctor who is licensed is required to complete lengthy post-doctoral training and supervision, as well as national and state examinations (boards) that evaluate competency. [http://www.child-neuropsychologist.com/html/body\_common\_questions\_child\_psychol.html](http://www.child-neuropsychologist.com/html/body_common_questions_child_psychol.html) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/118 "2010-08-18T19:12:35Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > For example, someone mentioned her [marriage] infidelities. Seems to me, someone who says “Don’t do this. I know. I’ve done it, and I can tell you that it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.” has more buisness giving advice than someone who had led a saintly married life. I’m no expert on her show, but I have heard it quite a few times. The most recently was probably nearly 10 years ago, so again grains of salt required. But at that time, she was very self-righteous. “I am my kid’s mom” was her big schtick. I don’t remember her ever saying, “I did this and it was a bad idea.” I remember a lot of sneering about divorce and working moms. Actually, I remember a lot of sneering in general. At the time I was listening, I was a conservative, but I found her pretty unbearable. My sister loved her though (and internalized a lot of her BS). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/119 "2010-08-18T19:14:41Z")
> [@](#): > > If they did get involved in this situation, such as by investigating or issuing a fine, they would announce it themselves and it would not be a secret. Okay. Was there anyone saying it was a secret? > [@](#): > > Now, they try to silence you. They try to wipe out your ability to earn a living and to have your job. They go after affiliates. They send threats to sponsors. What were the threats? A boycott? Public protest? Letter bombs? Complaints to the FCC? Again, does anyone know the specifics? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594/120 "2010-08-18T19:18:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Yes it is. She has never been licensed in any state or by any licensing board. > > Please provide a cite, then. A cite that she’s never been licensed? Are you kidding me? Do states keep data bases for people who are not licensed psychotherapists? You’re the one claiming she’s ever been licensed in anything. This burden is on you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-laura-wants-her-first-amendment-rights-back/550594.md?page=7)