# Dr Sher's cruel IVF by Internet vote
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 13, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918 "2012-12-13T10:31:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/21 "2012-12-13T18:03:54Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#):
>
> I can’t disagree with you, exactly, but at the same time I can’t help but think that if the decision about who to give these services to was made by a dispassionate review committee, **Em** wouldn’t even be in the running. \*\* IIRC she said she’d been pregnant and lost it something like 5 times; whatever is going on in this case, IVF ain’t gonna fix it and the odds of another cycle resulting in a live birth really, really suck.\*\* The sensible thing to do would be to select someone whose issue seems to be _getting_ pregnant rather than _staying_ pregnant. At least this way she has a chance.
>
> Although tbh I’m not sure how I feel about that, either. It’s hard for me not to see letting her enter this contest at all as another cycle of raising and dashing her hopes, and should she win and it wind up in yet another loss…that seems like the most drastic cycle of all. It just seems especially cruel.
Bolding mine.
That’s a good point, and part of the reason I’m thankful that it’s partly voting. We do appear to have a smaller chance of success then a couple that has never been pregnant before, and if it were directly up to the clinic, they will choose the couple with this highest chance of success in order to maintain their high success rates (which are published in the US). Who knows, maybe we will get voted in as finalists, but the clinic will ultimately decided to go with the couple who has the best chance of a pregnancy and take home baby.
As an aside, and on that note, should we win, we will be doing further investigation in to possible immune system issues that I may have, which might be the reason for the multiple miscarriages, before we do the IVF. I have had some preliminary investigation, but immune system issues are not really investigated for infertility and repeat loss, especially in Canada. We actually have to go through an American company for the most important testing because they don’t do it in Canada. And Dr. Sher is one of the leaders in immune system infertility and provides IVF and pregnancy medical support for those types of issues.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/22 "2012-12-13T18:07:38Z")
> [@tsarina](#):
>
> This is going to sound incredibly cold-hearted of me and I apologize in advance if it offends, but I have an honest question: if someone can’t afford a cycle of IVF, how do they expect to afford to raise a child, especially if they end up having one with special needs?
Good question, and very valid.
We did pay for and do one round of IVF here in Canada, where it’s a bit cheaper. We will do another if necessary. The thing with SIRM, and the reason we entered this contest, if because of the specific doctor, the clinic, and the types of infertility issues they deal with. They are much more expensive than most other clinics, and while it is within the realm of possiblity for us to afford it at some point over the next couple of years, for us, time is important. My age and our deadlines for stopping ‘trying’ are impending. So, in light of that, we felt that entering the contest in hopes of bumping up the timeline was worth it.
Also, IVF is a lump sump payment vs. paying for a childs needs over time.
This answer is for us only, I have no idea about other couples in the contest.
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### Author:  [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/23 "2012-12-13T18:17:34Z")
I agree with this pitting.
@ **Buck Godot** I’m confused. Your link indicates the show was a [del]hoax[/del] simulated contest in order to raise awareness about an issue.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/24 "2012-12-13T18:21:20Z")
**EmAnJ** , are you sure non-US couples are eligible?
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### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/25 "2012-12-13T18:25:06Z")
> [@tsarina](#):
>
> This is going to sound incredibly cold-hearted of me and I apologize in advance if it offends, but I have an honest question: if someone can’t afford a cycle of IVF, how do they expect to afford to raise a child, especially if they end up having one with special needs?
Simple, they don’t think beyond their desire for a baby. I don’t think it’s cold-hearted of you to say this. It’s a very rational, adult question.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/26 "2012-12-13T18:29:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> I don’t think it’s cold-hearted of you to say this.
That’s hardly surprising. But I suspect **EmAnJ** is correct about the spending patterns being just a bit different.
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### Author:  [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/27 "2012-12-13T18:34:51Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#):
>
> As an aside, and on that note, should we win, we will be doing further investigation in to possible immune system issues that I may have, which might be the reason for the multiple miscarriages, before we do the IVF.
I was reading an article recently - well, “recently” - about how the major blood groups seem to have micro groupings within them, and how this subgroups can negatively affect pregnancy. Have you heard about this research? I can try to find the article again, if you like. It’s kind of preliminary, though. I was curious what people here at the dope would think of it.
This contest is about the tackiest thing I’ve heard all month but of course I wish you good luck with it.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/28 "2012-12-13T18:39:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> That’s hardly surprising. But I suspect **EmAnJ** is correct about the spending patterns being just a bit different.
I meant to add that the question doesn’t seem cold hearted to me either even though I am not sure being unable to afford an expensive IVF procedure means you can’t afford a child. But **ZPG Zealot** doesn’t think anything is cold hearted from what I’ve seen.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/29 "2012-12-13T18:46:22Z")
> [@Toucanna](#):
>
> I agree with this pitting.
>
> @ **Buck Godot** I’m confused. Your link indicates the show was a [del]hoax[/del] simulated contest in order to raise awareness about an issue.
In the end yes, but prior to the revealed final episode, you had people tuning into a show that is exactly what Tripolar described.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/30 "2012-12-13T18:47:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> …But I did vote for **EmAnJ** and also voted to approve the thread. …
This thread needed approval?
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/31 "2012-12-13T18:49:17Z")
The original thread linked in the OP did, since it’s soliciting people to go vote for our girl.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/32 "2012-12-13T18:54:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> **EmAnJ** , are you sure non-US couples are eligible?
Yes, I asked. In fact, a Canadian couple won last time this contest was run.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/33 "2012-12-13T18:55:46Z")
> [@Merneith](#):
>
> I was reading an article recently - well, “recently” - about how the major blood groups seem to have micro groupings within them, and how this subgroups can negatively affect pregnancy. Have you heard about this research? I can try to find the article again, if you like. It’s kind of preliminary, though. I was curious what people here at the dope would think of it.
I had not heard of this, and would appreciate if you could PM me a link if you have a chance. Thanks!
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/34 "2012-12-13T18:56:20Z")
Ok, I went and voted for “our” folks, but I agree with the OP, this whole thing creeps me out.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/35 "2012-12-13T19:35:31Z")
What the heck. I’m in.
Good luck, **EmAnJ**.
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/36 "2012-12-13T19:40:48Z")
Doesn’t bother me. Not any more then any other cheesy viral marketing scheme does anyways.
Out of curiousity, how much does IVF cost?
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### Author:  [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/37 "2012-12-13T19:53:49Z")
> [@Mtgman](#):
>
> Anyone taking odds on a [ShellyAB after Obama’s re-election](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoqti0lzAw) style meltdown from people who don’t win?
Whoa. That is one pleasant lady.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/38 "2012-12-13T20:21:48Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> Out of curiousity, how much does IVF cost?
Upwards of $10k, not including the attendant costs of any other pregnancy/delivery.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/39 "2012-12-13T20:23:58Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> Doesn’t bother me. Not any more then any other cheesy viral marketing scheme does anyways.
>
> Out of curiousity, how much does IVF cost?
An IVF cycle at SIRM is just over $11K for the IVF procedure (monitoring of blood/ultrasounds, egg retrieval, sperm collection, fertilization and embryo transfer), plus the cost of med’s (which is about $2K to $5K depending on the woman / type of medication), and any additional requirements as they come up. When we did our IVF here in Calgary, it was $6,750, plus $3,200 in medication. We also used ICSI (where they inject the sperm right in to the egg) and that cost $1,500. We needed assisted hatching (the ‘shell’ on our embryos was a bit thick, so they help them hatch) and luckily it was free for us, but normally it’s $750.
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/40 "2012-12-13T21:34:13Z")
> [@tsarina](#):
>
> This is going to sound incredibly cold-hearted of me and I apologize in advance if it offends, but I have an honest question: if someone can’t afford a cycle of IVF, how do they expect to afford to raise a child, especially if they end up having one with special needs?
Well, I can tell you as someone who went through several cycles of IVF and then finally had a child: The cost of the IVF was a LOT more than the cost of raising the child, at least for the first year or so. And a lot more concentrated, too. I remember having to make a payment to the IVF clinic of more than $20,000 one day. No payment of near that amount was necessary for actually caring for my child.
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