# Dr Sher's cruel IVF by Internet vote
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 13, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918 "2012-12-13T10:31:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/41 "2012-12-13T22:03:04Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> In the end yes, but prior to the revealed final episode, you had people tuning into a show that is exactly what Tripolar described.
I was relieved to see that it wasn’t real.
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### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/42 "2012-12-13T22:13:00Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> Well, I can tell you as someone who went through several cycles of IVF and then finally had a child: The cost of the IVF was a LOT more than the cost of raising the child, at least for the first year or so. And a lot more concentrated, too. I remember having to make a payment to the IVF clinic of more than $20,000 one day. No payment of near that amount was necessary for actually caring for my child.
If you live in the United States, you could easily pay more than $20,000 per year for your child’s education. Engain in them a love of public universities.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/43 "2012-12-13T22:16:16Z")
> [@tsarina](#):
>
> This is going to sound incredibly cold-hearted of me and I apologize in advance if it offends, but I have an honest question: if someone can’t afford a cycle of IVF, how do they expect to afford to raise a child, especially if they end up having one with special needs?
You don’t understand how paying for the cost of raising a child is less than the cost of raising a child plus the cost of IVF? I’m not sure we can help if you don’t understand basic addition.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/44 "2012-12-13T22:22:48Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> If you live in the United States, you could easily pay more than $20,000 per year for your child’s education. Engain in them a love of public universities.
Except you have about 18 years to save up for it.
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### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/45 "2012-12-13T22:25:01Z")
> [@suranyi](#):
>
> Well, I can tell you as someone who went through several cycles of IVF and then finally had a child: The cost of the IVF was a LOT more than the cost of raising the child, at least for the first year or so. And a lot more concentrated, too. I remember having to make a payment to the IVF clinic of more than $20,000 one day. No payment of near that amount was necessary for actually caring for my child.
Are you taking into account daycare or someone’s lost income? Unless you have a free daycare arrangement, like a retired grandmother, or already aren’t working, daycare is easily going to be $1000/month for the first year. The costs of child rearing are more spread out, but they go on a lot longer. I think more people have to pay for daycare/forgo their own earnings than not. Add a couple hundred a month in extra insurance premiums, and it doesn’t take long before the cost of a kid is pretty close to an IVF cycle a year. The problem is that you can’t pace IVF cycles to one a year: you have to strike while the iron is hot. I do understand that.
However, I am saying this as someone who paid $14K for my own (failed) IVF and then another couple thousand for rounds of donor IUI before we had our son. Between my husband quitting work to care for him, the increase in our insurance, the $3K or so in medical bills, and then just stuff like formula and diapers, it wasn’t long before baby cost more than getting baby. Certainly less than a year.
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### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/46 "2012-12-13T23:07:52Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#):
>
> Except you have about 18 years to save up for it.
I imagine they will have to be fed, housed, medically treated, and educated during those 18 years also.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/47 "2012-12-13T23:11:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> I imagine they will have to be fed, housed, medically treated, and educated during those 18 years also.
Also spread over time, not a one time expense.
I get what you’re saying, but the two expenses are a bit different.
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### Author:  [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/48 "2012-12-13T23:26:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> I imagine they will have to be fed, housed, medically treated, and educated during those 18 years also.
Could you go shit on the Duggars and the nineteen badly cared for child slaves they brought into the world or the morons who conceive children just because they happen to be drunk or high instead?
:rolleyes:
We get your fucking point already. You hate kids. You’ve written the same shit on this board a hundred times before. Go back to calling men who shake your hands rapists or trying to get people to give you money in turn for your stupid parlor tricks.
Good luck, Em. I wish you well. My children were conceived with the help of fertility treatments. They are a joy.
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### Author:  [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/49 "2012-12-13T23:42:06Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#):
>
> An IVF cycle at SIRM is just over $11K for the IVF procedure (monitoring of blood/ultrasounds, egg retrieval, sperm collection, fertilization and embryo transfer), plus the cost of med’s (which is about $2K to $5K depending on the woman / type of medication), and any additional requirements as they come up. When we did our IVF here in Calgary, it was $6,750, plus $3,200 in medication. We also used ICSI (where they inject the sperm right in to the egg) and that cost $1,500. We needed assisted hatching (the ‘shell’ on our embryos was a bit thick, so they help them hatch) and luckily it was free for us, but normally it’s $750.
This is in line with the costs of my wife’s and I first IVF cycle in Oregon (successful pregnancy, but unsuccessful gestation). We have been trying for 7 years, and wish you the best of luck. I wish our costs more more in line with Canada, though my company does cover the first $10K.
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### Author:  [@LouLou7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouLou7)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/50 "2012-12-14T00:06:35Z")
Good luck, Em. I wish you well. My children were conceived with the help of fertility treatments. They are a joy.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. My children were conceived after a battle with infertility, and the help of fertility treatments. It was an emotional roller coaster, no doubt, but they are worth it.
Oh, and we weren’t wealthy people, either before or after we had children. But when raising a family is your priority, you find ways to make it work financially.
Best wishes to you and your husband, Em. I hope things go well for you.
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### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/51 "2012-12-14T01:43:25Z")
> [@MandaJo](#):
>
> Are you taking into account daycare or someone’s lost income? Unless you have a free daycare arrangement, like a retired grandmother, or already aren’t working, daycare is easily going to be $1000/month for the first year. The costs of child rearing are more spread out, but they go on a lot longer. I think more people have to pay for daycare/forgo their own earnings than not. Add a couple hundred a month in extra insurance premiums, and it doesn’t take long before the cost of a kid is pretty close to an IVF cycle a year. The problem is that you can’t pace IVF cycles to one a year: you have to strike while the iron is hot. I do understand that.
>
> However, I am saying this as someone who paid $14K for my own (failed) IVF and then another couple thousand for rounds of donor IUI before we had our son. Between my husband quitting work to care for him, the increase in our insurance, the $3K or so in medical bills, and then just stuff like formula and diapers, it wasn’t long before baby cost more than getting baby. Certainly less than a year.
You do have a point. My wife stayed home the first year or so to take care of the baby, so we didn’t have her salary.
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### Author:  [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/52 "2012-12-14T02:50:52Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> In the end yes, but prior to the revealed final episode, you had people tuning into a show that is exactly what Tripolar described.
There was just the one episode.
But yes, many people tuning in thought it was real. BNN, the broadcaster, is known for hoaxes, stunts and silliness, and the much-loved founder died after his body rejected his transplanted kidney. So there were definitely clues that it was a hoax.
The idea of the creators was: yes, let’s get people angry about this issue! Once everyone was riled up about the perceived immorality of the show, they redirected the anger at the fact that many people don’t bother to become donors. 50,000 people requested the forms to sign up as organ donors as a result of the show.
So maybe that can be something good coming out of this stunt: let’s all get angry about infertility. Someone might make a donation to fertility research, someone might donate their eggs, or just support someone going through infertility.
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### Author:  [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/53 "2012-12-14T03:15:17Z")
I’m also a little uncomfortable about the idea of voting on who gets a baby.
But do think its a more clever way of spending marketing dollars.
If you have say $10k to spend on “publicity”, this is a very good way to spend it. Rather than paying for ads or whatever, why not spend the money on getting someone pregnant and then hope that the word of mouth takes care of the publicity part?
This way, at least there’s an additional pregnancy for someone that may not have had otherwise right?
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### Author:  [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/54 "2012-12-14T09:48:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#):
>
> This way, at least there’s an additional pregnancy for someone that may not have had otherwise right?
Well, most likely not, since one cycle of IVF doesn’t have a very high success rate.
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### Author:  [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-shers-cruel-ivf-by-internet-vote/643918/55 "2012-12-14T18:23:12Z")
It’s really just outsourcing their panel decisions. Trading expertise for participation.
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