# Dr. Strangelove. What dis the Russian ambassador doing with that pocket watch at the end? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 9, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456 "2013-03-09T03:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/21 "2013-03-11T23:51:02Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > [Dramatic irony](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_irony#Dramatic_irony) is when the viewers know something the characters don’t. I don’t think it applies here. Dr. Strangelove thinks it’s significant that he can walk, but I as the viewer “know” it’s too late for this to make any difference. He’s toast, whether he can walk or not. I put quotes around “know” because it had never occurred to me prior to this thread that the people in the war room might still have time to execute their 11th hour mineshaft plan. I felt it was obvious that they all died immediately after Dr. Strangelove announces that he could walk. I still think that’s what the ending of the movie means, but I’ll grant that it is open to interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/22 "2013-03-12T18:14:00Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Dr. Strangelove thinks it’s significant that he can walk, but I as the viewer “know” it’s too late for this to make any difference. He’s toast, whether he can walk or not. > > I put quotes around “know” because it had never occurred to me prior to this thread that the people in the war room might still have time to execute their 11th hour mineshaft plan. I felt it was obvious that they all died immediately after Dr. Strangelove announces that he could walk. I still think that’s what the ending of the movie means, but I’ll grant that it is open to interpretation. Huh. I never interpreted the end of the movie to indicate that all the people in the war room were immediately killed. I assumed that, yes, the doomsday device was set off, but there was still (potentially) time for them to get to their mineshafts. The existential danger of nuclear weapons isn’t the actual blasts, but the fallout in the atmosphere. The danger (for most people) is not in being instantly vaporized, but ending up in an inhospitable world. If all the bombs going off at the end mean that they are instantly vaporized, then I agree that the whole sequence has dramatic irony. But, if so, the movie seems pretty deeply flawed. After all, everyone in the room knows about the doomsday device, so for all their mineshaft plans to be useless, that would mean that it doesn’t work the way they think it does? It would seem strange to just… spring that on the audience after we’ve been watching them discuss what will happen for the last hour or so. ---
**Author:** ![Nuveena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@Nuveena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuveena)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/23 "2013-03-12T18:18:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The Sellers character getting up and walking is a direct parody of an earlier, far more serious WW3 movie whose title currently eludes me and will until I can find the reference in one of my movie books. Fail Safe? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/24 "2013-03-12T20:08:53Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Huh. I never interpreted the end of the movie to indicate that all the people in the war room were immediately killed. I assumed that, yes, the doomsday device was set off, but there was still (potentially) time for them to get to their mineshafts. The existential danger of nuclear weapons isn’t the actual blasts, but the fallout in the atmosphere. The danger (for most people) is not in being instantly vaporized, but ending up in an inhospitable world. > > If all the bombs going off at the end mean that they are instantly vaporized, then I agree that the whole sequence has dramatic irony. But, if so, the movie seems pretty deeply flawed. > > After all, everyone in the room knows about the doomsday device, so for all their mineshaft plans to be useless, that would mean that it doesn’t work the way they think it does? It would seem strange to just… spring that on the audience after we’ve been watching them discuss what will happen for the last hour or so. I’ve read a lot about this movie, and I’ve never seen a suggestion that they die right then. After all they are in the War Room, which is probably buried fairly deep. Now the mineshaft plan probably won’t work since the general population might not be thrilled at protecting those who got them into this mess, but that would be later. The original pie fight ending also makes them dying less likely, as does the choice of the Vera Lynn song over the explosions. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/25 "2013-03-12T20:40:52Z")
> [@Nuveena](#): > > Fail Safe? I seem to recall a movie in which the last remnants of humanity are escaping a doomed earth in a rocket, and the Leader is in a wheelchair but is wheeled away at the last minute by his attendant, who says something about the future being for the young. He then stands up and watches the spaceship blast off. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/26 "2013-03-12T21:51:41Z")
It took me a while to find the book (_OMNI’s Screen Flights / Screen Fantasies_, edited by Danny Peary, 1984). The introduction, by Harlan Ellison, mentions in passing that George Pal’s _When Worlds Collide_ (1951) “was no doubt an influence on _Stranglelove_”, particularly in that the former includes a crippled industrialist named Stanton, played by John Hoyt, who also rises from his wheelchair in a final futile gesture. Of course, Ellison was at times a serious jerk, so take it with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/27 "2013-03-12T22:04:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It took me a while to find the book (_OMNI’s Screen Flights / Screen Fantasies_, edited by Danny Peary, 1984). The introduction, by Harlan Ellison, mentions in passing that George Pal’s _When Worlds Collide_ (1951) “was no doubt an influence on _Stranglelove_”, particularly in that the former includes a crippled industrialist named Stanton, played by John Hoyt, who also rises from his wheelchair in a final futile gesture. > > Of course, Ellison was at times a serious jerk, so take it with a grain of salt. I think you answered my question. > [@](#): > > Shortly before takeoff, many of the lottery losers riot, taking up Stanton’s weapons to try to force their way aboard. Hendron stays behind at the last moment, forcibly keeping the crippled Stanton and his wheelchair from boarding in order to lighten the spaceship. He rationalizes that the new world is for the young. With an effort born of desperation, Stanton stands up and starts walking in a futile attempt to board the ship before it takes off. > **[When Worlds Collide (1951 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Worlds_Collide_(1951_film))** > > When Worlds Collide is a 1951 American science fiction disaster film released by Paramount Pictures. It was produced by George Pal, directed by Rudolph Maté, and stars Richard Derr, Barbara Rush, Peter Hansen, and John Hoyt. The film is based on the 1933 science fiction novel of the same name, co-written by Edwin Balmer and Philip Wylie. > The film's storyline concerns the coming destruction of the Earth by a rogue star\[Note 1\] called Bellus and the desperate efforts to build a space ark to tra... That’s the scene I was rememberig in the post above yours. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/28 "2013-03-12T22:11:02Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I seem to recall a movie in which the last remnants of humanity are escaping a doomed earth in a rocket, and the Leader is in a wheelchair but is wheeled away at the last minute by his attendant, who says something about the future being for the young. He then stands up and watches the spaceship blast off. _When Worlds Collide_ One of the best. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/29 "2013-03-12T22:12:48Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > _When Worlds Collide_ > > One of the best. Too late - you got ninja’d. 😃 But yeah, I think Sellers was intending a reference to this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/30 "2013-03-12T22:29:41Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The “I can walk” thing was IIRC ad libbed by Sellers. A lot of it is ad libbed. [Here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59YKlP--PhU) is the original scene. At 2:55 you see Peter Bull trying very hard not to laugh. I have seen a clip of the original footage where he is not doing a very good job of it. I think that is one of the reasons why there are so many cut aways in the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/31 "2013-03-12T22:39:16Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > I just thought that was Strangelove’s inner Nazi, getting quite envigorated about the idea of war and its preparations. Me too. It’s a cliche that someone gets excited enough to jump out of their wheelchair (something that should be impossible) and he was excited about slaughtering animals, breeding with multiple women, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/32 "2013-03-12T22:39:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > He’s taking pictures. Of the Big Board. You can’t trust those Commie Bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/33 "2013-03-12T22:40:20Z")
[Here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxERyhKsXhs&NR=1&feature=endscreen) at 6:00 it mentions that very little of what Sellers did it the movie was scripted. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/34 "2013-03-12T22:48:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think that is one of the reasons why there are so many cut aways in the scene. That, and the fact that Peter Sellers is having a conversation with himself. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/35 "2013-03-12T23:03:10Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That, and the fact that Peter Sellers is having a conversation with himself. Well yeah, there is that. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/36 "2013-03-12T23:53:34Z")
The first time I ever saw “Dr. Strangelove” it was on broadcast TV back in the mid 1970s. When the Ambassador took out his watchcam and started taking pictures, I thought he was planting a bomb, since the very next scene is nucular explosions. No pause or rewind back in those days. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/37 "2013-03-12T23:57:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > . . . The introduction, by Harlan Ellison, mentions in passing that George Pal’s _When Worlds Collide_ (1951) “was no doubt an influence on _Stranglelove_”, particularly in that the former includes a crippled industrialist named Stanton, played by John Hoyt, who also rises from his wheelchair in a final futile gesture. . . . John Hoyt also played the ship’s doctor in “Star Trek’s” “The Cage/The Menagerie.” I’ve seen “When Worlds Collide” but, other than the basic plot, the only thing I remember in it is that Mr. Drucker does a turn as a bad guy.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/38 "2013-03-13T16:39:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It applies to the bomber. Strangelove fully expects to go into the mines with the other leaders and not die. In the closing scene, he acts like he’s pretty much taken over the government right under the President’s nose, simply by having a plan other than “wait and die”. If anybody survives, he will. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/39 "2013-03-14T01:50:57Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > If all the bombs going off at the end mean that they are instantly vaporized, then I agree that the whole sequence has dramatic irony. But, if so, the movie seems pretty deeply flawed. > > After all, everyone in the room knows about the doomsday device, so for all their mineshaft plans to be useless, that would mean that it doesn’t work the way they think it does? It would seem strange to just… spring that on the audience after we’ve been watching them discuss what will happen for the last hour or so. It’s funny to discover that other people have such a different take on this movie than I do. I’ve always thought that the whole point was that once things got rolling then _every_ plan anyone came up with to avoid nucelar disaster was ultimately useless, and that in the end the most powerful men in the world could do nothing more than squabble with each other and dream up crazy schemes that were never going to work. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456/40 "2013-04-18T18:30:01Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I felt it was obvious that they all died immediately after Dr. Strangelove announces that he could walk. I still think that’s what the ending of the movie means, but I’ll grant that it is open to interpretation. BUMP Got around to re-watching this last night, inspired by this thread. Having seen it again, I’d have to say that no, it isn’t open to interpretation. [Wikiquotes](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove) includes some quotes from the script that make it clear: > [@](#): > > **Russian Ambassador** : When (the Doomsday Device) is detonated, it will produce enough lethal radioactive fallout so that within ten months, the surface of the Earth will be as dead as the moon!..When (the bombs) are exploded, they will produce a Doomsday shroud. A lethal cloud of radioactivity which will encircle the earth for ninety-three years!.. **Dr. Strangelove** : I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy…heh, heh…at the bottom of ah…some of our deeper mineshafts. Radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep, and in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided. . . . Nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely. Greenhouses could maintain plant life. Animals could be bred and _slaughtered_. A quick survey would have to be made of all the available mine sites in the country, but I would guess that dwelling space for several hundred thousands of our people could easily be provided. The immediate scenario would thus be as in _On the Beach_, where people are waiting to die. Of course one might question whether it will be possible to organize such people to take the “quick survey” and “make improvements in dwelling space” before they die. Having said that, however, I agree that when you watch the movie in real time it isn’t emphasized, and the ending feels rushed, confusing, and unsatisfactory. It isn’t clear, in the final scene in the War Room, whether the players even know that Kong has dropped his bomb. This takes the edge off the absurdity. Sometimes you need cheesy old-fashioned exposition: “I have just received word that a nuclear weapon has detonated over the Soviet Union. The last plane must have gotten through. Within minutes the Doomsday Device will detonate! Within ten months the surface of the earth will be uninhabitable!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-dis-the-russian-ambassador-doing-with-that-pocket-watch-at-the-end/652456.md?page=3)