# Dr. Strangelove: What happened to the other guys on Mjr. Kong's plane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2003, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796 "2003-02-13T11:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/21 "2003-02-14T06:26:17Z")
Since I have egg on my face. **Countdown to Looking Glass** was a different movie. That should have been **By Dawn’s Early Light**. All the other stuff was correct. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/22 "2003-02-14T07:40:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Manduck said:_ > In the days before satellites, there were weather ships. Those were ships that made meteorological observations to aid in weather prediction. The bomber was going to ditch near one so that the crew could be rescued by the ship. Ignorance fought! Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/23 "2003-02-14T11:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\* > If somehow they made it out and lived, well, the rest of the world was destroyed by the Soviet “doomsday machine”. BUT, the crew had their condoms, amphetamines, nylons, rubles, dollars, gold…you figure out what happened to them. They’re probably there right now, hangin’ out with the Russkies drinkin’ Stoli, and makin’ babies. \*\* I dunno. They also had their miniature combination “Rooshan” phrasebook and bible. So whenever they were translating, they’d be flashing a bible, and I’m not sure how well that would go over. BTW, might they have been moving fast enough across the landscape to have been past the effects of the blast by the time the bomb dropped? Yeah, the bomb and them would share forward momentum, so it would be keeping up with them if they just went straight ahead. But if they peeled off after dropping it and sped off another way, wouldn’t they be out of its reach by the time it detonated, so altitude wouldn’t be a factor? ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/24 "2003-02-14T11:40:35Z")
Pity if they did bite the dust, they were all in for some personal citations when they got home 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/25 "2003-02-14T11:43:16Z")
Doubtful. Someone [posted stats](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2970711&highlight=#post2970711) on a one megaton device in another thread recently, and they’re not too hopeful. Doesn’t the pressure wave of the blast travel at Mach 1? I’m not sure that even with the head start of a few seconds while the bomb dropped, that their plane could have made it, in the limping along condition that it was in. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/26 "2003-02-14T12:26:34Z")
Not to mention, by the way, that the Enola Gay used a rather special sort of over-the-shoulder method of bomb delivery. As pinpoint accuracy was not needed, they dropped the thing as they were banking and pulling up, tossing it upwards to give them a few more seconds. As it descended, they were already at maximum power going way the heck away from the bomb’s impact point. Not to mention they had more altitude to drop it in, and time to impact is time to get away. They’re all dead, Dave. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/27 "2016-10-19T12:34:50Z")
Yes, I know,its a zombie, but how do\*\* you escape the blast and assorted effects of a 30 MT you have just dropped one\*\*. Per [NukeMap](http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/), a 30 MT blast over Moscow means third degree burns 50 km away. Certain destruction to buildings 21 KM away. However, the Soviets dropped a bomb near twice as powerful using a Tu-95, and AFAIK the crew survived. Its certainly possible, but how? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/28 "2016-10-19T14:13:28Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Well, see, I didn’t _know_ radiation travels at the speed of light! Now I do. Thank you. Depends on the type of radiation. Gamma rays, sure. Alpha and Beta radiation, nope. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/29 "2016-10-19T14:32:05Z")
Attach a large parachute to the device. From the [Tsar Bomba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba) wiki, that allowed the Bear to get about 45 km away from ground zero before the bomb went off. It still batted the Bear around, of course, dropping the plane about 1000 m. Scorched the paint pretty good too, as you’d expect from a very high yield thermonuclear. Thermal effects attenuate a lot less than either blast or prompt ionizing radiation. I think high altitude delivery was still in vogue during the period the U.S. deployed monster yield bombs like the [Mk-17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb) and [Mk-41](http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/B41.html) You can also do a “laydown” bomb drop, where the bomb lands on the ground, and detonates after a given period of time. IIRC, **LSLGuy** ’s talked here about practicing that type of drop. A [lobbed ballistic arc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toss_bombing), where the bomb drop occurs while the airplane is in a steep climb, causing the bomb to fly in an arc similar to an artillery shell, might buy you enough time too. For low altitude delivery, it’s going to be the only way to get the bomb to an optimal airburst height too. I wonder if rockets were ever attached to the bomb in order to increase the length of that ballistic arc? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/30 "2016-10-19T14:57:34Z")
> [@Dr.Rieux](#): > > “Fly away from the radiation?” > You mean that blast of radiation that’s going to be coming at them _at the speed of light_? By fixing the warp engines in the nick of time. **Kong:** Do not grieve, General. It is logical. The needs of the many, outweigh… **General:** The needs of the few. **Kong:** Or the one. I never took the doomsday scenario test until now. What do you think of my solution? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/31 "2016-10-19T15:13:03Z")
Since the thread has been resurrected, one way of surviving is to use terrain to your advantage. For instance you could fly over a mountain ridge, as in By Dawn’s Early Light. If you have time. If. I wonder, how protective would a few miles of water-heavy storm clouds be? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/32 "2016-10-19T15:57:34Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > **Kong:** Or the one. I never took the doomsday scenario test until now. What do you think of my solution? Yee-haw! For what it’s worth, in Fail Safe, the crew that bombed Moscow died (or, would die of) of radiation from the bomb. If I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/33 "2016-10-19T16:02:57Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Attach a large parachute to the device. From the [Tsar Bomba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba) wiki, that allowed the Bear to get about 45 km away from ground zero before the bomb went off. It still batted the Bear around, of course, dropping the plane about 1000 m. Scorched the paint pretty good too, as you’d expect from a very high yield thermonuclear. Thermal effects attenuate a lot less than either blast or prompt ionizing radiation. > > I think high altitude delivery was still in vogue during the period the U.S. deployed monster yield bombs like the [Mk-17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb) and [Mk-41](http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/B41.html) > > You can also do a “laydown” bomb drop, where the bomb lands on the ground, and detonates after a given period of time. IIRC, **LSLGuy** ’s talked here about practicing that type of drop. > > A [lobbed ballistic arc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toss_bombing), where the bomb drop occurs while the airplane is in a steep climb, causing the bomb to fly in an arc similar to an artillery shell, might buy you enough time too. For low altitude delivery, it’s going to be the only way to get the bomb to an optimal airburst height too. I wonder if rockets were ever attached to the bomb in order to increase the length of that ballistic arc? Thanks. Although IIRC, **LSLGuy** was F-16 and those were much more nimble and dropped smaller yield weapons than a B-52 would have in the 1960’s. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/34 "2016-10-19T19:23:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yes, I know,its a zombie, but how do\*\* you escape the blast and assorted effects of a 30 MT you have just dropped one\*\*. Per [NukeMap](http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/), a 30 MT blast over Moscow means third degree burns 50 km away. Certain destruction to buildings 21 KM away. > > However, the Soviets dropped a bomb near twice as powerful using a Tu-95, and AFAIK the crew survived. > Its certainly possible, but how? Bombers fly pretty high, maybe 50,000ft ~= 15km. If it’s a ground-level detonation, then they’re already 15 km away even if they’re directly above the impact site. So, if we assume they toss the bomb out while turning, then they’re going pretty much directly away from the center of the blast at time t0, and the bomb itself is traveling away from them as well. How far can a bomber fly in the time it takes a bomb to fall? Going off the B2 bomber’s Wikipedia page, it can do Mach 0.95, ~630mph. I don’t know what the terminal velocity of the bomb is, but, for some really rough estimates, let’s say it goes the same speed. In that case, they’re 15+km horizontal away from the impact site when it detonates, which puts them 21+km from the blast site. But if the shock wave is traveling at the speed of sound, and they’re traveling at 0.95 the speed of sound, it’s going to take 20 times that distance to reach them, putting them 400+km away by the time the shock wave gets there. Seems doable. I’m sure I made some errors here, but this is rough. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/35 "2016-10-19T19:45:34Z")
On review of the scene, the bomber isn’t _nearly_ at 50,000 feet - it’s low enough that from the plane, the pilot can see individual structures on the target base. The target itself, though, is surrounded by mountains and I can sort-of picture the bomber being shielded from direct blast exposure because of the terrain, i.e. they come just over a mountain and the base is now within sight (with more mountains just beyond it, on the bomber’s current trajectory), they drop the payload and are just over the next mountain when it detonates. Since they had files on the target (they dug through these files for an “opportunity” after their fuel loss denied them their original primary and secondary), I think it safe to assume those files included things like U2 photographs and details on how to make a low-altitude pass, i.e. with which heading, to maximize survival odds. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/36 "2016-10-19T19:47:20Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I’ve heard that in the book the movie is based on, the plane, \ Leper Colony\, is smashed into the ground by the blast. Despite it being a zombie thread, we may as well clear up this old point. The source novel was _Two Hours to Doom_/_Red Alert_ by Peter George writing under the pseudonym of “Peter Bryant”. In it, the crew of the badly-damaged _Alabama Angel_ realise that the circumstances are forcing them to do a low-level bombing run and are clear that this will be fatal to them as a result. That’s a bit moot in the end, since the plane crashes just shy of the target, with that partially triggering the bomb, so there’s still a nuclear explosion, but much smaller than intended. George did later publish a novelisation of the film, creating endless confusion about which version is which ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/37 "2016-10-19T20:16:59Z")
While alpha and beta radiation are both slower than light, they’re still going to be so much faster than any airplane that it really doesn’t matter: For all practical purposes, you can consider them instantaneous. Then again, they also won’t hurt anyone inside the plane, since even the thin, lightweight metals that planes are made of would provide adequate shielding. Alphas and betas aren’t very penetrating. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/38 "2016-10-19T20:37:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > On review of the scene, the bomber isn’t _nearly_ at 50,000 feet - it’s low enough that from the plane, the pilot can see individual structures on the target base. The target itself, though, is surrounded by mountains and I can sort-of picture the bomber being shielded from direct blast exposure because of the terrain, i.e. they come just over a mountain and the base is now within sight (with more mountains just beyond it, on the bomber’s current trajectory), they drop the payload and are just over the next mountain when it detonates. The terrain protection question is also on my mind. They are flying quite low during the bomb run, regularly turning to avoid modest mountains. Watching the bomb run, there’s 16 seconds between release and the screen going gray. That works out to a lovely height of around 4096 ft. (The bomb is set to go off at ground level.) There’s a countdown of distance to target but the times are ridiculous. Very slow to reasonable. The target site does sit in a bowl with small mountains on at least 3 sides. There are heading into the bottom of the “U”. A sharp turn to increase distance can trade altitude (to get closer to the mountains) for speed. Assuming a high average of 600 mph, in 16 seconds it can get almost 3 miles away from the release point. Maybe a couple miles more from the blast point. Given the size of the complex they are bombing, that’s not enough. They’ll still be in the “bowl”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/39 "2016-10-19T21:06:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Since they had files on the target (they dug through these files for an “opportunity” after their fuel loss denied them their original primary and secondary), I think it safe to assume those files included things like U2 photographs and details on how to make a low-altitude pass, i.e. with which heading, to maximize survival odds. There’s one other consequence of that scene. In the War Room, President Muffley asks the Soviet Premier if that single bomber reaching its target would be enough to trigger the doomsday machine. But as you point out, it doesn’t attack either of its intended targets. It’s not said whether that will also trigger doomsday, although we’re surely meant to think that it will. Then I suppose it’s a question of whether the explosions at the end are the doomsday machine, or just a pretty montage to end the film. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796/40 "2016-10-19T21:32:04Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There’s one other consequence of that scene. In the War Room, President Muffley asks the Soviet Premier if that single bomber reaching its target would be enough to trigger the doomsday machine. But as you point out, it doesn’t attack either of its intended targets. It’s not said whether that will also trigger doomsday, although we’re surely meant to think that it will. Then I suppose it’s a question of whether the explosions at the end are the doomsday machine, or just a pretty montage to end the film. I was never clear on that, myself. There was a passing line about “we need to state a pre-emptive strike to take over their mine-shaft space” or something, and the generals themselves seemed pretty calm in their final scene discussing a mine-shaft survival plan as something they would _start_ organizing… Oh, well… what bugged me more was that the primary and secondary targets were an “IBCM complex at Laputa” and a “missile complex seven miles east of Barshaw.” These sound like pre-emptive strike targets to me, not at all consistent with the description of the “retaliatory” Plan R. I’d think a retaliation would be directed at major cities and industrial centers, with the presumption being that the Soviets have already struck first and disabled the U.S., thus their missile complexes might be empty, having done their job already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dr-strangelove-what-happened-to-the-other-guys-on-mjr-kongs-plane/154796.md?page=3)