# Draft Dodger \[Harrison Ford\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947 "2014-01-05T15:30:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/21 "2014-01-05T20:45:06Z")
I would define “out of one’s way” as anything intentionally done outside regular behavior. W/regard to fabricating/concocting a belief, the scenario described in the quote attributed to Harrison Ford is a pretty good example. At the risk of opening up old wounds, thousands of guys who would have preferred not to serve did so out of civic responsibility. Might not be in vogue today, but it remains a respected personal position. Full disclosure, I was drafted into the Marines in 1969. Reference being drafted vs. enlisting, my preference at that time was not to enlist. However, when my number came up I accepted it. I have no respect, and indeed a distaste for those who, by my definition, let someone step up in their place. As an aside, I was very fortunate to have served without injury. And as things turned out the experience has had a very positive effect on my life in the many years since. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/22 "2014-01-05T20:54:27Z")
I chose to teach High School in 1967, rather than be drafted or move to Canada. Was I a “draft dodger” a “draft evader” or something else? ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/23 "2014-01-05T21:04:19Z")
Semantics. Depends why you went into teaching…because it was an ambition or did so for avoidance reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/24 "2014-01-05T21:11:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel it’s not clear from what he said. He admits his letter to the draft board confused them badly: so was this because Ford expressed himself poorly despite his best efforts or was he intentionally trying to be unclear? He also said _“I developed that thesis and took the biblical injunction to love thy neighbor as thyself as the central and most meaningful thing in my life.”_ This is somewhat ambiguous: is Ford saying this was his existing belief or is he saying he adopted this as his belief because he felt it was likely to be accepted by the draft board? Considering the scope of his [current beliefs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Ford#Political_views), including some level of respect for the Dalai Lama, dislike of Hollywood making so many violent movies, being a supporter of some level of gun control, and disapproval of the war in Iraq, his beliefs around Vietnam may well have been at the level of a CO. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/25 "2014-01-05T21:13:09Z")
**Moderator Note** Thread title edited to more clearly indicate the topic. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/26 "2014-01-05T21:33:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Until and unless\* the OP defines specifically what he means by the term, shouldn’t we just go with the legal definition? I don’t see why we should focus exclusively on the legal definition, as the OP’s question wasn’t framed as a legal one. In any case, so far no one has actually provided the text of any law which defines the term “draft dodger”. (I doubt there actually is such a law. More likely the legislation enumerates and describes, but does not collectively give a particular name to, certain illegal activities, and people colloquially refer to some or all these activities as “draft dodging”.) In the absence of such a definition, no two people are necessarily going to agree which of those activities should be included in the term, and some people will also consider a number of legal means of conscription avoidance to be included. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/27 "2014-01-05T21:54:10Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I understand it in exactly the way it is defined by law. So you think all the atomic bomb developers were draft dodgers. Since this is GQ, I will stop here. Richard Feynman was, but inadvertently. He answered the psych-eval questions honestly and logically, and got branded a lunatic. He wrote the draft board saying he thought it was mistake, but they never called him up anyway. It makes a funny story for his vast collection of funny stories from his life. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/28 "2014-01-05T21:55:15Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I would define “out of one’s way” as anything intentionally done outside regular behavior. This seems to regard anything - including completely legal behaviors - other than submitting to the draft as less than moral behavior. Many people at the time, however, considered submitting to the draft to be less than moral. That’s what drove the contentiousness of the argument. You have the right to equate avoiding the draft through completely legal means as dodging it. I have the right to say that I reject such a position. If people want to argue about this, there’s a forum for it. I just want to make it clear that there is no formal, official, or legal reason to label Harrison Ford’s behavior as draft dodging. Putting it into a GQ OP requires that the answer be “no”, psychonaut. Putting it anywhere is poisoning the well. Full disclosure: I received my draft notice in the fall of 1972. I was in grad school so I applied for the automatic deferment until the end of the quarter. I then received an unasked-for deferment until January 3, 1973. The draft was ended on January 2, 1973. Without that first deferment, the second one would never have happened. If you want to tell me what my moral position should be, I’d be curious to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/29 "2014-01-05T21:59:05Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I chose to teach High School in 1967, rather than be drafted or move to Canada. Was I a “draft dodger” a “draft evader” or something else? > [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > Semantics. Depends why you went into teaching…because it was an ambition or did so for avoidance reasons. I thought I was clear about my motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/30 "2014-01-05T22:05:26Z")
Suppose a young man is going to get a physical in a couple of days. His father tells him, “Do me a favor. Don’t eat anything the day before the physical.” The son asks, “Why?”. The father says, “Just do me a favor and don’t ask why.” The son does it and goes to the physical. He get rejected. He comes home and tells his father that he was just barely under the weight limit. He says, “I suppose I knew that I was very thin, but I had no idea that I was so thin that I would flunk the physical. Maybe I should be eating more.” The father smiles and says nothing. Is the son a draft dodger? Is the father one? Can you dodge someone else’s draft? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/31 "2014-01-05T22:14:43Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > IMHO, anyone that went out of their way to orchestrate a situation and/or belief in order to secure a deferment was a draft dodger. Obviously not a scientific/legal opinion, but I believe it to be accurate in terms of context of the time. He was an atheist pacifist. The law at the time required him to base his pacifism on an outside authority. He used his knowledge of philosophy to offer a non-religious authority. What belief did he “orchestrate”? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/32 "2014-01-05T22:46:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Conscientious objectors are NOT draft dodgers. > Those with medical issues are NOT draft dodgers. > Those with dependents are NOT draft dodgers. > Those in protected occupations are NOT draft dodgers. And those in the National Guard are NOT draft dodgers. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/33 "2014-01-05T22:50:12Z")
My maternal Uncles both avoided service in Vietnam by very different methods. D (HS class 65’/66’) joined the Army but knew he wasn’t going because he spoke fluent German. He spent his childhood in post war Germany because my Grandfather was in the USAF/USAAF. T (class of 70’/71’) was a CO and did his service at Jeff Davis Hospital, which caused him to become a MD. My GFather came to T’s hearing with the intention of beating the tar out of him, instead he came out as anti-Vietnam War with a healthy new respect for his son. I personally do not like the term “Draft Dodger” because it glosses over the very difficult decisions that thousands of young men had to make and forgets how divisive the War was. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/34 "2014-01-05T22:50:37Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Considering the scope of his [current beliefs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Ford#Political_views), including some level of respect for the Dalai Lama, dislike of Hollywood making so many violent movies, being a supporter of some level of gun control, and disapproval of the war in Iraq, his beliefs around Vietnam may well have been at the level of a CO. And here we get into the whole freaking atheists/agnostics aren’t good people because Jayyzeus hasn’t put the FEAREH of GOWD into their heartz!!!11!!! bullshit. I simply do not see why someone with no belief in god, or no belief in the Judeo-Christian god can not object to killing, it isn’t like people with ‘no god’ are heartless evil murderers. If someone can plainly state that killing people is evil, and they will not kill I see no issue with it. Let them work at the VA hospital system schleping bedpans for the same amount of time that an enlistment takes. No big freaking deal. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/35 "2014-01-05T23:20:49Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I would define “out of one’s way” as anything intentionally done outside regular behavior. W/regard to fabricating/concocting a belief, the scenario described in the quote attributed to Harrison Ford is a pretty good example. Logically, that would mean that he was totally for the war and had to fake something saying he was against it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/36 "2014-01-05T23:24:08Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I simply do not see why someone with no belief in god, or no belief in the Judeo-Christian god can not object to killing… ISTM that atheists and agnostics would be _more_ opposed to killing, since they can’t comfort themselves that their enemies are either going to a better place; or the enemies begin Evil People, to Hell. If this is all there is, then life is more precious. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/37 "2014-01-05T23:44:33Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Logically, that would mean that he was totally for the war and had to fake something saying he was against it? That’s not really logical. A person might have not wanted to be drafted because he was opposed to the war. But that wasn’t a legally acceptable reason for not being drafted. So if that person who was opposed to the war falsely claimed that he was a homosexual, then he’s is faking his reason for not being drafted. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/38 "2014-01-06T00:02:16Z")
I really think folks these days are unfamiliar with how unpopular the Vietnam war was it it’s later days. My dad was, til the day he died, a super republican, shit he was an early Limbaugh ditto-head. He was also a WWII and Korean War Vet. When it became clear that my older bro might be drafted he vowed to drive him to Canada to evade the draft. I don’t think Ford was a draft dodger and even if he was I wouldn’t fault him for it. I still feel bad for the poor Joe’s who were drafted and sacrificed their lives for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/39 "2014-01-06T01:42:46Z")
The Selective Service Act is EXCRUCIATINGLY difficult to read, but the enforcement section appears to read: > [@](#): > > … **any person who shall knowingly, make, or be a party to the making of, any false statement** or certificate **regarding** or bearing upon **a classification or in support of any request for a particular classification, for service under the provisions of this title,** or rules, regulations, or directions made pursuant thereto, **or who otherwise evades or refuses registration or service in the armed forces or any of the requirements of this title** , or who knowingly counsels, aids, or abets another to refuse or evade registration or service in the armed forces or any of the requirements of this title, or of said rules, regulations, or directions, or who in any manner shall knowingly fail or neglect or refuse to perform any duty required of him under or in the execution of this title, or rules, regulations, or directions made pursuant to this title, or any person or persons who shall knowingly hinder or interfere or attempt to do so in any way, by force or violence or otherwise, with the administration of this title or the rules or regulations made pursuant thereto, or who conspires to commit any one or more of such offenses, **shall, upon conviction in any district court of the United States of competent jurisdiction, be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine of not more than $10,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment…** Got that? I left out a whole bit before this section that pertains to SSS employees, and tried to bold the parts that one can read to get the gist, but here’s my plain language summary: If you make a false statement trying to get a particular classification (whether CO or 4F, whatever), or you “otherwise evade” service in the armed forces, you can be imprisoned or fined. Who knows what otherwise evades means. But at first blush, my opinion is that the law seems to require an act of deception or some type of obstruction (along the lines of fleeing or interference) to be subject to criminal penalties. Losing weight doesn’t seem to be prohibited under this law – at least if I was a juror, I wouldn’t see losing weight as “otherwise evading.”’ The wikipedia article on draft evasion makes an interesting point: there’s what we think of as draft dodging (eg., fleeing to another country) and there’s draft avoidance (eg, legally making yourself unattractive to the draft). The clever point is that draft avoidance seems to be no different than tax avoidance: just like you can take certain actions legally to reduce your exposure to taxes, one may take certain actions to reduce one’s exposure to the draft… but take it too far and you may be illegally evading taxes/the draft, but that doesn’t mean that avoidance is in any way prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947/40 "2014-01-06T02:00:43Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > I really think folks these days are unfamiliar with how unpopular the Vietnam war was it it’s later days. My dad was, til the day he died, a super republican, shit he was an early Limbaugh ditto-head. He was also a WWII and Korean War Vet. When it became clear that my older bro might be drafted he vowed to drive him to Canada to evade the draft. Correct me if I am mistaken, but are you equating our involvement in VN with Republicans? If so, I would point out our involvement is most associated with presidents Kennedy and Johnson, both Democrats. It ended during the Nixon administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-dodger-harrison-ford/677947.md?page=3)