# Draft: how easy was it to get out by flunking boot camp or missing performance goals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362 "2012-04-10T12:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/41 "2012-04-11T12:29:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Haven’t served in the JAG, but bunked in the same building with MPs. Not only was that part of our “why you don’t want to go AWOL” class instruction, but the MPs said they didn’t have time to bother with AWOLs that were only a few days old. “Let 'em be gone for a while, then we’ll fry their ass.” Scare stories to keep recruits in line. MP’s arrest and charge who they’re told to; they have no idea why a certain person is arrested at a certain time. Their comments are almost certainly empty boasting contrived to explain why in fact nobody makes much effort to recover entry-level AWOLs. Nobody really likes to admit that the Army sometimes just lets people disappear because it’s better to cut their losses on a proven useless recruit, but those are the economic facts. Or at least in 1989, in boot camp, those were the facts. Obviously the situation changes as a soldier accumulates expensive training, experience, responsibility, and in a theater of combat. Those are quite different from entry-level separations. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/42 "2012-04-11T12:50:24Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > I was in boot camp in 1981. We called it “recycling”, but that wasn’t the official term either. I remember it being called “Being Asmo-ed” in Great Lakes circa 1982. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/43 "2012-04-11T13:38:58Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > I remember it being called “Being Asmo-ed” in Great Lakes circa 1982. Same for me there in 1993. Assignment Memorandum - ASMO. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/44 "2012-04-11T13:46:56Z")
I assume though, actually committing (or appearing to commit) homosexual acts while in uniform, a member of the military, or on base, especially in the 40’s 50’s and into the 60’s was a crime punishable under military justice? After all, in some states it was still a crime for anyone anywhere… ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/45 "2012-04-11T14:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > “I want to kill, kiiillll, kiiiiiiilll, KKKIIIILLLLLLL!!!” [http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml](http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/46 "2012-04-11T15:10:48Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > I remember it being called “Being Asmo-ed” in Great Lakes circa 1982. in Orlando it was called being “bagged back.” On the first day (hours in, when there was light coming through the barracks windows whie we were sorting our gear) our comany commander yelled for everyone to get on the line at attention, then yelled “now say that again so everyhone can hear it!” "_Please sir, I don’t think the Navy is where I should be"_ in exactly the same voice you’d expect Oliver Twist to ask for more gruel. Then the company commander PT’d the living shit our of all of us, Oliver Twist was escorted away, and we were told that he’d be months processing in a transient company while we were long gone to our duty stations. Rumor had it that the guys in these barracks could only pick up trach & cigarette butts or sit and read their Bluejacket Manuals all day, were allowed no liberty, and only ate horrible, horrible recruit chow hall meals. I never knew anyone who specifically wanted out post-boot-camp. The closest I saw was at an army post where I went to school. There I knew a woman who had been raped at knifepoint by another solder, and, as was customary back in the bad old days, treated like she was the trouble-maker as her case ground through the system. After they cut the rapist loose for lack of enough evidence, she was pretty much emotionally destroyed, but still had to let the system work its way letting her go. She was treated kindly enough at the cadre level: ride along with the MP’s to help with any kids in domestic disturbance calls; given routine office jobs; and, pre-DADT, they looked the other way at her open bisexuality. Like a lot of big organizations, the system will grind people to dust, but the actual humans will cut each other some slack. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/47 "2012-04-11T16:26:08Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Same for me there in 1993. Assignment Memorandum - ASMO. So THAT’s what that stood for! The military needs an acronym glossary. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/48 "2012-04-11T18:01:25Z")
For those who were wondering, here are the SSS draft classifications: [Selective Service System - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System#Classifications) > [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > …And if you couldn’t explain a 4F draft status, it would be assumed you were homosexual and there were no laws preventing discrimination against homosexuals at the time. And still aren’t, at the Federal level and in most states: [Employment Non-Discrimination Act - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act) > [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > Don’t know if this was the same case or not, but a couple years ago, here in San Diego, a drill instructor was court martialled w/regard to an incident where a recruit drowned. Here’s a notorious case from 1956: [Ribbon Creek incident - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_Creek_Incident) And another one from 2005: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988854/ns/nightly\_news/t/marines-probe-boot-camp-drowning/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988854/ns/nightly_news/t/marines-probe-boot-camp-drowning/) ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/49 "2012-04-11T23:24:51Z")
Slightly off topic, but interesting nevertheless. I attended a luncheon today at MCRD. The guest speaker, a colonel from the base IG staff, was asked what percentage of recruits who enter boot camp do not make it through boot camp. It’s 7% of males and 9% of females. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/50 "2012-04-11T23:36:15Z")
But does “did not make it” mean they were discharged, repeated, or otherwise? And is this an all-volunteer army, or a drafted one? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/51 "2012-04-11T23:49:18Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > Not the draft, Navy bootcamp early 80’s. > > Even in a volunteer force guys enlist and realize their mistake in bootcamp. Some of them tried to underperform their way out. Unfortunately the Navy’s solution for underperformers was to set them back. There was an official term for this but my memory isn’t producing it. > > If you were in week 8 of 16 they could re-assign you to a company in week 4 for example. And they could do this multiple times thus increasing your misery. Eventually I suppose the recruit accepted a less-than-honorable and went on his way. > > Some of these guys were overweight waivers who couldn’t reach the physical requirements. Most were personalities who clearly didn’t belong in the military. These included older 20-something I-don’t-know-what-to-do-with-my-life recruits. > > The flaw in the Navy’s strategy was that with every re-assignment more good recruits were exposed to a low-moral poorly motivated troublemaker. The only thing worse than being set back (at least in the late 60s) was being sent to what was called “4160 Company”. 4160 was for hard cases who thought they could buck the system, but weren’t doing anything to merit a court martial or Captain’s mast. 4160 was designed to break your spirit completely through meaningless and brutal workdays. On one day you might be required to dig a large hole and haul the dirt away two buckets at a time (at a run), hanging off each end of your rifle, which you carried arms extended over your head. The next day you would carry all the dirt back (at a run) and fill the hole. You know: meaningful work. This could go on for weeks until it was certain that your attitude had been fully adjusted. You would then be put into another company to try again. Some people were just unsuited and were administratively discharged for “needs of the Navy”. As noted above, we had one guy who just lost it and who subsequently just went away. This was after an incident in the chow hall during what was called “service week”. During this period (two weeks in our case), you get up at about 0400, go the galley, set up the food line, serve food to the recruits, then clean the place up. You do this three times a day and finally get back to bed, exhausted, around midnight. In the second week, this guy went a little nuts in the chow line (lack of sleep and stress, I guess), and started throwing pats of butter at the recruits coming through the line, shouting “Take it! Take it! You have to take the butter!” A few nights later, he just went over the edge, waking everybody up by screaming and generally carrying on. Gone. **Hypno-Toad** > [@](#): > > Sea Bees? We never swarmed, and almost never were found on board a ship. I went 23 years and never set foot on an LGB. –Chefguy, CPO, US Navy Seabees (Ret) ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/52 "2012-04-12T00:36:12Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > But does “did not make it” mean they were discharged, repeated, or otherwise? And is this an all-volunteer army, or a drafted one? These are current (ergo, all volunteer) Marine Corps stats. “Did not make it” is defined as that for one reason or another it was determined they weren’t Marine Corps material. Considering how selective MC recruiting is these days, it’s not illogical to assume the vast majority of issues relate to physical limitations/injury. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/53 "2012-04-12T00:49:39Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > During the two world wars enlistees were routinely turned back for flat feet and hernias. If a person wanted to enlist, the people doing the intake physicals were probably willing to overlook a few things…as my recruiter did. But there were a number of technical disqualifications available to those who wished to use them. I think my grandfathers were rejected for WWII for exactly those reasons, one with a repaired hernia and one with flat feet. Both grandmas sent them off to be seen “later”, like when the war ended, and they came right back. Anyone know at what point they were drafting guys with 2 kids, like my paternal grandfather? So I guess you could try to get a hernia, like in Bill Cosby’s standup bit. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/54 "2012-04-12T01:15:01Z")
I called my brother who left the army 5 years ago as a captain. He says that if you just generally suck and underperform in basic or specialty school, you’re declared as “unfit for military service” and just let go like it never happened. He supposes then you don’t check the military service box on your job applications and act like you weren’t there. He also said that what’s more likely is that you are graduated and then continue to suck as you continue to serve (an officer’s lament). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/55 "2012-04-12T15:55:31Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > So THAT’s what that stood for! The military needs an acronym glossary. :rolleyes: I probably still remember this only because I was the company yeoman. Yeah, you can laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/56 "2012-04-12T16:21:22Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I probably still remember this only because I was the company yeoman. > > Yeah, you can laugh. No I can’t… I was the “Laundry P.O.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/57 "2012-04-12T18:48:57Z")
> [@Rich\_G7subs](#): > > No I can’t… I was the “Laundry P.O.” :rolleyes: Hahahahaha! I lucked out: I’d had two years of ROTC in college and they were eyeballing me to be Recruit Chief Petty Officer. But I had also listed that I played drums (which was largely a lie), so, figuring I’d be going to the Drum & Stumble Corps, they chose another poor bastard who had one year of ROTC to be the RCPO. I ended up staying with my company, and he ended up catching pure hell. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/58 "2012-04-12T20:03:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Rich G7subs > No I can’t… I was the “Laundry P.O.” > [@Chefguy](#): > > Hahahahaha! I lucked out: I’d had two years of ROTC in college and they were eyeballing me to be Recruit Chief Petty Officer. But I had also listed that I played drums (which was largely a lie), so, figuring I’d be going to the Drum & Stumble Corps, they chose another poor bastard who had one year of ROTC to be the RCPO. I ended up staying with my company, and he ended up catching pure hell. Heh. I was warned prior to entering boot camp by a friend who’d been through it; “They’ll ask the first day if you play a musical instrument… whatever you do, don’t tell them you do, they’ll put you in a special company and make you dress up and march all the time”. I did in fact play a couple of band instruments, but remembered what he’d told me, and didn’t say a word when the question was asked. As it happened, the musician’s company caught lots of breaks and had relatively easy duty all the way through. I wound up in a regular company as - get this - head P.O. No, not chief P.O., but the guy in charge of keeping the heads clean:( . Never saw my “friend” again, but if I had I’d have strangled him. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/59 "2012-04-12T20:52:37Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > I think my grandfathers were rejected for WWII for exactly those reasons, one with a repaired hernia and one with flat feet. Both grandmas sent them off to be seen “later”, like when the war ended, and they came right back. Anyone know at what point they were drafting guys with 2 kids, like my paternal grandfather? Before WW II my father-in-law, who couldn’t get a job because everyone assumed he was going to be drafted soon, got a physical. The doctor on examining his eyes which were bad but not all that bad, wrote on his record that he was not to be drafted for any reason. This was like December 2, 1941. He figures that if he went one week later his eyes would have suddenly improved enough for him to be drafted. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/60 "2012-04-12T21:06:25Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Heh. I was warned prior to entering boot camp by a friend who’d been through it; “They’ll ask the first day if you play a musical instrument… whatever you do, don’t tell them you do, they’ll put you in a special company and make you dress up and march all the time”. I did in fact play a couple of band instruments, but remembered what he’d told me, and didn’t say a word when the question was asked. As it happened, the musician’s company caught lots of breaks and had relatively easy duty all the way through. I wound up in a regular company as - get this - head P.O. No, not chief P.O., but the guy in charge of keeping the heads clean:( . Never saw my “friend” again, but if I had I’d have strangled him. That’s some funny shit. Drum & Stumble had it pretty easy. Yeah, they had to look sharp, but they got out of a lot of the chicken shit stuff the rest of us had to do. Oddly enough, I ran into our RCPO some ten years later. He was a Corpsman and got a tour with our Seabee battalion. He said that stint in boot as RCPO was the worst assignment he ever had. Our three months in Guatemala together more than made up for it, though. 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362.md?page=4)