# Draft: how easy was it to get out by flunking boot camp or missing performance goals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362 "2012-04-10T12:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/81 "2012-04-15T03:18:46Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > So he got on the army bus with the other 4-fs and he said it was like stepping into the freak show. Guys with all sorts of disabilities, mental and physical were in there and I think he was embarassed to be on the bus. I wonder if that was done intentionally by the army, a sort of parade of shame for any potential dodgers. I wondered the same thing. I went for my pre-induction physical and tried to thing of anything that might get me out of going into the military. When I walked in the door, there was a guy in uniform sitting behind a desk to process us in. He had a severe deformity, with one shoulder jutting out at a weird angle, and his head sort of tucked down in. Think Stephen Hawking. My first thought was “Holy shit, if they took him, I’m totally fucked!” ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/82 "2012-04-15T03:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou; 63920] My father tried to enlist the day after Pearl Harbor. He was rejected because of a heart murmur (which he didn’t know he had.) He figured that since he’d been rejected, he certainly wouldn’t be drafted, so he got married. Nine months later his heart murmur had magically disappeared and he went off to the Army leaving his now-pregnant wife to fend for herself for the duration. [/QUOTE] My dad was diagnosed with a heart arrhythmia during his draft physical. As this was 1943, the doctor assured him that his heart problem wouldn’t likely kill him. A German shell or a Japanese bullet would do that. Fortunately, the doctor was wrong, and he actually died of the arrhythmia almost 60 years later. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/83 "2012-04-15T06:51:33Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > I And one of my uncles, in line for the Viet Nam-era draft, achieved 4-F status by starving himself to the point of emaciation. He had a naturally slight, skinny build anyway and was probably near the lower limits of acceptable weight to begin with. I think I knew your uncle. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/84 "2012-04-15T07:39:23Z")
Oh yeah… Vietnam era, 1960’s draft… if you checked “drug use” “LSD” you were immediately sent to the shrink’s office, interviewed, sent home and eventually would receive a 4F classification… ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/85 "2012-04-15T14:16:00Z")
At the Chicago AFEES (induction center) the guy sitting next to me, who looked maybe 50 lbs overweight told be he had eaten 7 lbs of bananas that morning just to be sure he wasn’t taken. I wished him luck. Later in the day, after being advised I was going to the Marines, I asked, “Why me?” “The guy next to you was too fat,” I was told. Only raffle I’ve ever won. Of the 113 being drafted that day, the Marines took two. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/86 "2012-04-15T14:38:30Z")
One former co-worker told me that he starved himself for a while and showed up emaciated and sickly so that he’d be 4F. I was born in 1963 so I am way too young for the VN draft, however, when I was 17, Carter had just resumed Selective Service registration and Reagan had just been elected. It seems very silly now but a lot of people in my peer group were frightened that Reagan would start a war and the we’d be subject to a draft. Even with Viet Nam in my memory, it didn’t occur to me to try to evade it. Of course there wasn’t an actual war going on but all of my peers remembered the protests over Viet Nam and almost everyone registered. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/87 "2012-04-15T14:50:22Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > And one of my uncles, in line for the Viet Nam-era draft, achieved 4-F status by starving himself to the point of emaciation. He had a naturally slight, skinny build anyway and was probably near the lower limits of acceptable weight to begin with. My father had a slight, skinny build and was near the lower limits of acceptable weight to begin with; problem is, _“to begin with”_ meant _“at the weigh-in,”_ since he didn’t know he was three pounds above the Viet Nam-era minimum until the guy who’d just classed him as 1-A cheerfully spelled it out. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/88 "2012-04-15T14:53:27Z")
Story from a old co-worker: He was drafted in the early 1970s and a few of the guys he appeared before the draft board with were all bragging that they had letters from their doctors for flat feet, old broken bones, and other minor health issues. They were convinced that they would be 4-F. One of the first guys to the front came in on crutches from a recent motorcycle accident. Had a dossier of medical charts under his arm. He presented the documents to the draft board member who flipped through them in a hurry and tossed them aside. Then stamped 1-A on this guy’s card. My ex co-worker said you could hear the air deflating from the room after watching that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/89 "2012-04-15T17:15:32Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I doubt my attitude toward those who fled to Canada, or otherwise dodged the draft, will ever change. Can’t be proven one way or another, but my personal opinion is that the overwhelming majority that ran did it out of selfishness or cowardice rather than some deep personal philosophical conflict with the concept of war. > > The Viet Nam War, or perhaps the way it was prosecuted, didn’t do anyone any good. Far from it. This is apparent in hindsight. However, at the time it felt different. I wasn’t thrilled about being drafted, but the thought of running away never once crossed my mnd. > > I anticipate this perspective will be met with something less than 100% agreement. OTOH, you also had my dad, who dodged Vietnam by fleeing the country… to Israel, where he immediately joined the Israeli military as a combat engineer. The way he saw it, if he was going to fight, he might as well fight for something he believed in. ---
**Author:** ![Dufus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Dufus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dufus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/90 "2012-04-15T17:36:27Z")
[tangent] Looking at Wikipedia, I see that in 1967, 11,153 troops were killed in Vietnam and 50,724 people were killed on American highways. In 1968, 16,592 troops were killed in Vietnam, 52,725 people were killed on American highways. In 1969, 11,616 troops were killed in Vietnam, 53,543 people were killed on American highways. I’m curious if any of those who burned their draft cards to avoid being killed or killing someone else ever considered burning their driver’s licenses? [/tangent] ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/91 "2012-04-15T17:45:13Z")
> [@Dufus](#): > > Looking at Wikipedia, I see that i 1967, 11,153 troops were killed in Vietnam and 50,724 people were killed on American highways Does this really make sense to you? Hundreds of millions of people drove on the highways. Percentagewise, Viet Nam was significantly more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/92 "2012-04-15T17:57:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > That’s some funny shit. Drum & Stumble had it pretty easy. Yeah, they had to look sharp, but they got out of a lot of the chicken shit stuff the rest of us had to do. I wasn’t in Drum and Stumble. I was in State Flags. We did five parades while I was in boot camp, including the Circus Parade in Milwaukee. In that one we marched behind mounted units and elephants. In white uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![Dufus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Dufus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dufus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/93 "2012-04-15T18:29:38Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Does this really make sense to you? Hundreds of millions of people drove on the highways. Percentagewise, Viet Nam was significantly more dangerous. O.K. I see now. It’s a fear factor percentage. The break over percentage point of what’s too dangerous. Everyone has their fear limit, everyone must be careful to never cross the line. Many thanks. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/94 "2012-04-15T20:19:08Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I was born in 1963 so I am way too young for the VN draft, however, when I was 17, Carter had just resumed Selective Service registration and Reagan had just been elected. It seems very silly now but a lot of people in my peer group were frightened that Reagan would start a war and the we’d be subject to a draft. Even with Viet Nam in my memory, it didn’t occur to me to try to evade it. Of course there wasn’t an actual war going on but all of my peers remembered the protests over Viet Nam and almost everyone registered. Heh, I was finishing up my degree in 1980 (courtesy of the GI Bill), and I couldn’t believe how fast the campus loudmouths did a 180 when draft registration was reinstated. It seemed that they went from “let’s go kick some raghead butt” to “hey, as long as they release the hostages, what they do 10,000 miles away isn’t our business” almost overnight, when it dawned on them that they might be more than spectators. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/95 "2012-04-15T21:01:04Z")
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Dufus. Thank you for sharing that one with us. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/96 "2012-04-16T03:10:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Does this really make sense to you? Hundreds of millions of people drove on the highways. Percentagewise, Viet Nam was significantly more dangerous. OTOH I remember reading that, during the buildup in Saudi Arabia before Desert Storm in 1990-91, fewer U.S. servicemembers died there than would have had they stayed home, due to lack of alcohol, limited leave, and no car crashes. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/97 "2012-04-16T03:17:10Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > OTOH I remember reading that, during the buildup in Saudi Arabia before Desert Storm in 1990-91, fewer U.S. servicemembers died there than would have had they stayed home, due to lack of alcohol, limited leave, and no car crashes. I totally believe that. Also, the hospitals treated more injuries as a result of sports (like volleyball, flag football, etc) than combat related. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/98 "2012-04-16T18:46:30Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Heh. I was warned prior to entering boot camp by a friend who’d been through it; “They’ll ask the first day if you play a musical instrument… whatever you do, don’t tell them you do, they’ll put you in a special company and make you dress up and march all the time”. I did in fact play a couple of band instruments, but remembered what he’d told me, and didn’t say a word when the question was asked. As it happened, the musician’s company caught lots of breaks and had relatively easy duty all the way through. I wound up in a regular company as - get this - head P.O. No, not chief P.O., but the guy in charge of keeping the heads clean:( . Never saw my “friend” again, but if I had I’d have strangled him. My dad was in the Coast Guard in Alaska during WWII. One of his favorite stories is about some officer who had the petty officers assemble everyone; then he asked if there were any musicians. A few raised their hands - the officer promptly had them unload a piano off the back of a truck and carry it up a few flights of stairs. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362/99 "2012-04-16T20:28:38Z")
“No, but my dad was a piano _mover_, so…” - Bill Murray, _Groundhog Day_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/draft-how-easy-was-it-to-get-out-by-flunking-boot-camp-or-missing-performance-goals/618362.md?page=4)