# DrDeth is Pitted Again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 17, 2025, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044 "2025-10-17T03:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/201 "2026-05-24T01:48:21Z")
I believe it was some kind of Treasury Agent. Or maybe the IRS? That’s what I’ve picked up second hand, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/202 "2026-05-24T01:54:50Z")
I think he worked as a clerk at the SS Administration or something like that. You know, “the feds”. Now he’s trying to justify why it’s right for him to take the valuable coin from the tip jar. Because if he doesn’t take it, the owner is just going to steal it from the staff anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/203 "2026-05-24T03:18:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Because he’s now arguing in FQ (“If a burglar drops something of his while burgling my home, is it mine?”) that the police would prefer if you didn’t bother to report crimes to them. That is not what I said/ Let us look at the picture or rights and responsibilities. Let us take two minor property crimes- a resident has a cheap lawn chair stolen off their front porch, and a shopkeeper has someone steal a loaf of bread. Let us say the value is $5. Now, they have rights as a victim- they may report either crime- that is their right. But as it is a minor property crime, they have no legal responsibility to report that crime. So, the victims here _may- legally- report those crimes or not._ Are we all in agreement here? Next those victims have responsibilities as taxpayers- do they want those crimes investigated, do they want their taxpayer money spent on investigation, arrest, prosecution and jail? So, we all view those responsibilities differently. In many states with a Democratic majority, the taxpayers have agreed that they do not want minor property crimes prosecuted and imprisoned. They want their law enforcement tax dollars spend on more serious crimes. I agree with this, and that is how I vote- and that is my right. Do we agree that is my right? So, I’d rather that those two victims not report those minor crimes- but that is their right. However, the Republican minorities in those states disagree- they want all those crimes prosecuted and those “criminals” thrown in prosecuted and imprisoned for the maximum sentence. Oddly, it seems all those “private prisons” donate a lot of money to GOP candidates, but I am _sure_ that is merely a coincidence. 🙄 So, if people agree with the Republicans and think we are “soft on crime” and Jean Valjean must be imprisoned for ten years for stealing that loaf of bread- fine. I disagree. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think he worked as a clerk at the SS Administration or something like that. You know, “the feds”. > > Now he’s trying to justify why it’s right for him to take the valuable coin from the tip jar. No, I didnt say that either. I think it is okay for me to OFFER to buy that coin from the clerk at a low price (after informing the clerk it is collectable), and it is okay for the clerk to look the coin up themselves or say no, or whatever. I make an offer, and they may decline. Is it wrong to make an offer? TAKING the coin, as you claim, is totally wrong. And both guesses as to my Federal Officer position are wrong, altho ASL\_v2.0 is close. Since i dont want AI to Doxx me, I will clarify- I was a hangman. My duties were to play the game Hangman all day long. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/204 "2026-05-24T04:00:10Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Now he’s trying to justify why it’s right for him to take the valuable coin from the tip jar. Because if he doesn’t take it, the owner is just going to steal it from the staff anyway. Take? No. Offer to buy after putting the other party on notice that it’s worth more than its face value. If the other party doesn’t bother to look it up, that’s on them. Although, to be honest, it sounds more like a scam that I am pretty sure I saw in an episode of _Better Call Saul_ than anything likely to actually happen. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/205 "2026-05-24T04:13:38Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8RnysC3tNiI/maxresdefault.jpg "Better Call Saul - The Coin Con (S1E10) | Movieclips") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RnysC3tNiI) ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/206 "2026-05-24T04:19:29Z")
See, and that’s the reason _I_ wouldn’t buy a coin like that from the tip jar. Seems like a fine scam. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/207 "2026-05-24T11:58:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Next those victims have responsibilities as taxpayers- do they want those crimes investigated, do they want their taxpayer money spent on investigation, arrest, prosecution and jail? So, we all view those responsibilities differently. In many states with a Democratic majority, the taxpayers have agreed that they do not want minor property crimes prosecuted and imprisoned. They want their law enforcement tax dollars spend on more serious crimes. Serious crimes like, say, burglary. Which is equally serious regardless of the actual value of property the thieves get away with. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/208 "2026-05-24T12:13:21Z")
Yeah, burglary is very invasive, and people whose homes are broken into lose security, not just stuff. If someone steals a rake from your lawn, eh. But if they break into your home i think you ought to report it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/209 "2026-05-24T13:46:59Z")
Both crime and crime fighting are stochastic and statistical in nature. My view is report everything. The police may or may not follow up on everything. But it’s not the individual citizens’ place to choose to deprive the police of an accurate statistical understanding of what’s going on. That decision not to report is screwing your neighbors who may be the next victim. Not helping the taxpayers of your fair city. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/210 "2026-05-24T14:31:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, burglary is very invasive, and people whose homes are broken into lose security, not just stuff. My car has been broken into twice (many years apart, long ago, in vastly different locations and circumstances). Each time they stole things that were pretty much garbage… Probably less than $50 either time. I just don’t keep valuable stuff in my car. Yet I paid much more than that in window repairs, and it was traumatic to experience. The harm goes far beyond the value of whatever was stolen. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/211 "2026-05-24T14:34:37Z")
We do get notes from the police saying things like, “coins and other loose items have been stolen from three cars in the sugarloaf neighborhood this week, don’t leave anything valuable in your car” That’s useful, even if they don’t put a lot of effort into catching the thief. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/212 "2026-05-24T15:16:41Z")
Shop lifting is a petty crime that is often just let go. Maybe the shopkeeper can get the item back but let’s the shoplifter go. That encourages the thief to do it again. The loss shrinkage in shops and stores would really alarm us if we knew the real statistics. I shop in a Walmart that’s in a college town. They take shoplifting very seriously. It’s epidemic over there. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/213 "2026-05-24T16:02:24Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > The loss shrinkage in shops and stores would really alarm us if we knew the real statistics. While I agree with you wholeheartedly, a sizable portion of shrinkage comes from employees. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I shop in a Walmart that’s in a college town. They take shoplifting very seriously. If I get a client accused of shoplifting, I’d say 9 and a half times out of 10 the store is Walmart. I have to believe that people steal from other places just as much, but Walmart is zealous about going after shoplifters. (the next time you walk in, next to the entrance in the vestibule you’ll see a door to a small room. That’s where they take the thieves while they show the cops their video surveillance) > [@DrDeth](#): > > In many states with a Democratic majority, the taxpayers have agreed that they do not want minor property crimes prosecuted and imprisoned. You have lumped “prosecuted” and “imprisoned” together, but those are very different things. A lot of the consternation about being “soft on retail theft” was because people were being offered diversion programs when caught. While that may eventually result in the charges being dropped, having to go through the court system is a far cry from not being “prosecuted.” Similarly, a lot of crimes result in consequences even if being imprisoned isn’t a possibility (actually, that’s true of all misdemeanors, since those are potentially punishable by jail terms, which aren’t the same thing as going to prison) I’m not aware of any place that doesn’t want to _prosecute_ theft cases. > [@DrDeth](#): > > if people agree with the Republicans and think we are “soft on crime” and Jean Valjean must be imprisoned for ten years for stealing that loaf of bread- fine. I disagree. This is a pretty textbook example of a straw man. Show me _anywhere_ in the modern western world where a person _must_ be imprisoned for 10 years for stealing a loaf of bread. Seriously, this is why you don’t think Cops should get involved? If so, I assure you that your worries are misplaced. Flawed though it may be, our justice system isn’t that punitive. Any examples to the contrary are anomalies and a failure of the system, and not reflective of its typical outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/214 "2026-05-24T16:11:50Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > The loss shrinkage in shops and stores would really alarm us if we knew the real statistics. I have worked in retail management at the corporate level for decades. Compare what’s in the commentary in the financial statements to what is in the press releases. Hint: You can lie in press releases without any repercussions. If you tell your investors that thieves are making off with 5% of the merchandise and the truth is \<1%, you’re facing criminal prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/215 "2026-05-24T16:46:51Z")
My impression, from reading police blogs, is that the usual punishment for shoplifting is to be told you are no longer welcome on the property (and it’s trespassing if you do.) there may be a fine, too. But yeah, no one is going to prison for stealing a loaf of bread. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/216 "2026-05-24T17:28:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > My impression, from reading police blogs, is that the usual punishment for shoplifting is to be told you are no longer welcome on the property (and it’s trespassing if you do.) there may be a fine, too. At least where I am, it depends on the county, but usually you end up paying fines, watch a “community values” video, and have to do some community service. You’re also prohibited from going back to that location, and will have to pay restitution for anything you stole. But that’s for a first offense. If you are doing it repeatedly, I have seen it charged as “scheme to defraud” (which is a felony). And in Florida a 3rd or subsequent petit theft is _also_ charged as a felony. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/217 "2026-05-24T17:38:51Z")
There is a widespread RW belief that many blue states or large blue cities have officially decided, and publicized the decision, that shoplifting will _never_ be prosecuted. Allegedly because of some idea that “The poors wouldn’t steal if they didn’t need it, so letting them shoplift is just Robin Hood justice against rich corps and wealthy shopkeepers”. Needless to say, this RW narrative is fake crap. But it has real staying power in the minds of the people it has infected. Whenever I hear anyone harping about “shoplifting” versus “justice” I assume they’re repeating some version of this fake RW screed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/218 "2026-05-24T18:01:46Z")
I’d like to know in what jurisdictions there is general agreement by taxpayers that “minor” property crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted. Even in California, proclaimed by right-wingers to be a theft free-for-all state, [things have gotten tougher on shoplifters](https://earlcarterlaw.com/2026/01/california-shoplifting-laws-just-got-tougher/), and if Jean Valjean runs out of Neiman-Marcus with arms full of stolen clothing, he’s liable to face significant jail time. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/219 "2026-05-24T18:14:08Z")
They make students walk in front of the store for a period of time, with a sign.. The sign says: “I shoplifted from Walmart, This is part of my punishment.” Parents can be prosecuted if it’s a repeater. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2026, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044/220 "2026-05-24T18:57:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, if people agree with the Republicans and think we are “soft on crime” and Jean Valjean must be imprisoned for ten years for stealing that loaf of bread- fine. I disagree It’s entirely possible to think both that even minor crimes should be investigated and that minor crimes should get only minor punishments or in some cases even none. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drdeth-is-pitted-again/1024044.md?page=12)