# "Dream Defenders" month-long sit-in in Florida State Capitol continues **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 14, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195 "2013-08-14T06:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/1 "2013-08-14T06:18:12Z")
Shortly after the Zimmerman verdict, a group of mostly young Floridians, mostly college students, calling themselves the [Dream Defenders](http://dreamdefenders.org/) camped out in Governor Rick Scott’s office to protest Florida’s stand-your-ground law. The protest has attracted some high-profile figures like Jesse Jackson and Harry Belafonte. [And they’re **still** there.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/us/dream-defenders-arent-walking-out-on-their-florida-protest.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) I originally started a [MPSIMS thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=697463) on this, but I think the story has evolved into GD material now, because [now they’re planning a voter-drive.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/09/dream-defenders-voter-drive_n_3727818.html) > [@](#): > > In their quest to fight Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, Dream Defenders, the Miami-based protesters, aren’t just continuing a 25-day sit-in at Gov. Rick Scott’s office. > > Thursday, they announced a voter drive with a very specific target in mind: 61,500 people, the number of votes by which the governor won in 2010. > > \ > > The drive is in response to Scott’s intent to resume his controversial voter purge, Agnew said. “We intend to register the people that are forgotten: the black, the brown, the indigent, the poor, the LGBTQ community.” > > “So when the time comes again, for use to move on issues like the school-to-prison pipeline, like Stand Your Ground, we won’t have to sit on the floor again,” he said referring to their almost month-long protest at the Florida capitol. “Instead we can have our issues heard by lawmakers who genuinely care about these issues because they come from our community.” > > \ > > In addition to fighting Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law, the group hopes new legislation will address school-based arrests and exclusionary disciplines, “zero tolerance” policies, analysis of school-based arrest data, and police training on racial and bias-based profiling. Have they got a chance of success? And might they inspire imitators in other states? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/2 "2013-08-14T07:18:50Z")
Despite the fact that I disagree with their stance, and also think they have no direction (re: Zimmerman trial did not involve SYG at all), even if I were on their side, I would still make fun of their stupid name. “Dream”? Whose dream? Defending it? How? Is this like the Avengers, where they’re not really avenging anything, except at least they have a badass giant green guy. Checking their website, they offer a lot of slogans, very few actual concrete details, like from their website I understand they’re worried about race and prisons, but SYG stuff has no details at all. Chance of success? Low. Imitators? Maybe, or at least “chapters.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/3 "2013-08-14T07:24:01Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Despite the fact that I disagree with their stance, and also think they have no direction (re: Zimmerman trial did not involve SYG at all), even if I were on their side, I would still make fun of their stupid name. “Dream”? Whose dream? Defending it? How? MLK’s, I think. “How” is covered in the OP – a voter-drive with specific policy goals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/4 "2013-08-14T14:06:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > ShoThe protest has attracted some high-profile figures like Jesse Jackson and Harry Belafonte. And now [Talib Kweli](http://newsone.com/2672279/talib-kweli-dream-defenders/) . . . whoever that is . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/5 "2013-08-14T14:09:26Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > . . . (re: Zimmerman trial did not involve SYG at all) . . . Actually, that greatly oversimplifies. [We’ve been over this before.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696474) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/6 "2013-08-14T14:32:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, that greatly oversimplifies. [We’ve been over this before.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696474) Your own cite says otherwise - > [@](#): > > The law was not a factor in Mr. Zimmerman’s defense. IOW State Representative Matt Gaetz appears to be correct - [QUOTE=Matt Gaetz] I think you have protesters in the Capitol today who are protesting without a whole lot of knowledge about the fact patterns associated with Stand Your Ground. [/QUOTE] It seems the “Dream Defenders” don’t know what they are supposed to be protesting, and are thrashing around trying to find something. They have already met with the governor. There has already been a task force that reviewed the laws. There is nothing resembling a grass-roots push against SYG in Florida, and nobody except these time-wasting twits thinks Florida needs a special session to review the laws yet again. A few dozen morons with nothing better to do with their time than whine about how badly criminals are treated. Sounds like the basis for a world-shaking movement to me. Only, not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/7 "2013-08-14T14:48:28Z")
> [@](#): > > In addition to fighting Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law, the group hopes new legislation will address school-based arrests and exclusionary disciplines, “zero tolerance” policies, analysis of school-based arrest data, and police training on racial and bias-based profiling. Mission creep can be the undoing of a movement. Focus is lost, and the media just sees a mishmash of of unrelated protest signs. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/8 "2013-08-14T14:59:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, that greatly oversimplifies. [We’ve been over this before.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696474) How incredibly lazy. In what world does linking to a 9 page thread with no other comment support your statement in any way? Do you think this makes your point stronger? You could link to hereand it would have the same effect. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/9 "2013-08-14T14:59:47Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Mission creep can be the undoing of a movement. Focus is lost, and the media just sees a mishmash of of unrelated protest signs. The paragraph you quoted sounds laser-focused as these things go. This is not OWS. There are **no** demands in any way vague. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/10 "2013-08-14T15:00:50Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > How incredibly lazy. I put in all the effort **thelurkinghorror’s** comment deserved. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/11 "2013-08-14T15:06:18Z")
Sounds like three or four rungs below OWS in terms of focus and odds of success. > [@](#): > > …high-profile figures like Jesse Jackson and Harry Belafonte… Well, that’ll get mainstream Americans on board! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/12 "2013-08-14T15:11:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The paragraph you quoted sounds laser-focused as these things go. This is not OWS. There are **no** demands in any way vague. Hard to see how SYG fits into their overall mission. The “Crisis” statement on their website reads: > [@](#): > > Across the country we find our communities trapped in a vicious cycle of disenfranchisement, discrimination and depression. The “Dream” has not been realized for many who have fallen through the cracks of our social and economic order. Millions of children in this country come of age in poverty, confronted with an increasingly underfunded education system and society that criminalizes them. > > In every corner of our country, we find the cancer of an unchecked correctional system. It is ravaging our state, our communities, and our youth in particular. No matter the perspective – The War on Drugs, Immigration, The School to Prison Pipeline, or Voter Suppression – all roads lead to the private prison menace. > > Corporations such as the GEO Group and Corrections Corporation of America earn record profit as they lobby the political class to expand criminalization and ensnare our communities. For a human being coming out of this system they often face the prospects of being labeled second-class for the rest of their life: being denied the right to vote, the ability to get a job with a living wage, becoming endlessly trapped in the cycle of poverty and incarceration that limits the power we know we hold. > > Movements are always built from the ground up, in the form of organized opposition. Since the victories of the Civil Rights movement we have seen our social framework deteriorate. Our schools are falling apart, our job prospects are low, and our communities are caught in a cycle of incarceration. All to satisfy the greed of a corporate class seeking to further disfranchise us at every turn. > > A new generation of youth, leaders, and organizers for social change, must be identified, engaged, trained, and sent back to their communities to build. Few in Florida are willing to invest in true leadership for black and brown youth. Ignited by the unjust death of one of our own one spring night in Sanford, We have dedicated our lives to battling the criminalization of a generation. We are building concrete power and committed to defending the dreams of our community and our generation. I agree with some of that, but fail to see how a self-defense law impacts any of it. Legislation that will address “school-based arrests and exclusionary disciplines, “zero tolerance” policies, analysis of school-based arrest data, and police training on racial and bias-based profiling” _does_, however. Hard not to see this as a headline-grab, using a topical, visible issue to attract eyeballs and attention to an unrelated cause. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/13 "2013-08-14T15:27:27Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Hard to see how SYG fits into their overall mission. The “Crisis” statement on their website reads: > > I agree with some of that, but fail to see how a self-defense law impacts any of it. Legislation that will address “school-based arrests and exclusionary disciplines, “zero tolerance” policies, analysis of school-based arrest data, and police training on racial and bias-based profiling” _does_, however. Hard not to see this as a headline-grab, using a topical, visible issue to attract eyeballs and attention to an unrelated cause. They have a very ambitious agenda. Fortunately, the criminilization of a generation issue has a very simple [fix.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ovwxBrIBj1w&t=14) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/14 "2013-08-14T15:39:32Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > They have a very ambitious agenda. Fortunately, the criminilization of a generation issue has a very simple [fix.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ovwxBrIBj1w&t=14) That’s certainly simple enough for me, because I was instilled with values by my parents and community that included obedience to the law, rejection of violence and the honor culture, respect for women and avoidance of unplanned pregnancy, and the importance of education and delayed gratification. Also, I had a ready alternative to a life of crime: a life of gainful employment. Not everyone benefited from that worldview or those prospects, however. Transmitting those values and creating employment prospects are worthy goals, though the Dream Defenders site is rather silent on values and family, and long on anti-corporate rhetoric, e.g. . “Our schools are falling apart, our job prospects are low, and our communities are caught in a cycle of incarceration. All to satisfy the greed of a corporate class seeking to further disfranchise us at every turn.” Repealing Stand Your Ground won’t make a measurable difference in the lives of the people the Dream Defenders claim to represent, and it certainly has nothing to do with this “corporate class” and their greed, which somehow destroys schools and employment prospects. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/15 "2013-08-14T15:50:44Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Despite the fact that I disagree with their stance . . . Well, that’s another issue for debate here: Apart from the Dream Defenders’ prospects of success, what is the value of their goals? > [@](#): > > In addition to fighting Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law, the group hopes new legislation will address school-based arrests and exclusionary disciplines, “zero tolerance” policies, analysis of school-based arrest data, and police training on racial and bias-based profiling. Good ideas, or bad? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/16 "2013-08-14T15:52:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that’s another issue for debate here: Apart from the Dream Defenders’ prospects of success, what is the value of their goals? > > Good ideas, or bad? To clarify: when you speak of their prospects for success, do you mean their voting drive, or their general goals? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/17 "2013-08-14T15:54:43Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Hard to see how SYG fits into their overall mission. Well, I think that’s mostly a hook on which to hang the whole thing. Or, put another way, the catalyst in the solution. They struck while that iron was hot. (Sometimes mixing metaphors is like mixing pigments.) Not that they necessarily consciously approached it that way. I think certain students sharing a general set of discontents got really mad over the Zimmerman verdict, as a **lot** of Floridians and Americans of all colors did, and decided to Do Something, and when they all got together they discovered they had a broader common agenda worth fighting for. Which it **is.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/18 "2013-08-14T15:55:53Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > To clarify: when you speak of their prospects for success, do you mean their voting drive, or their general goals? Both, as well as the relationship between the two. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/19 "2013-08-14T15:56:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sounds like three or four rungs below OWS in terms of focus and odds of success. > > Well, that’ll get mainstream Americans on board! More than you realize. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195/20 "2013-08-14T16:19:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I think that’s mostly a hook on which to hang the whole thing. Or, put another way, the catalyst in the solution. They struck while that iron was hot. (Sometimes mixing metaphors is like mixing pigments.) Not that they necessarily consciously approached it that way. I think certain students sharing a general set of discontents got really mad over the Zimmerman verdict, as a **lot** of Floridians and Americans of all colors did, and decided to Do Something, and when they all got together they discovered they had a broader common agenda worth fighting for. Which it **is.** Hard to say what portion of the upset-at-the-verdict group is also on board for the prison/education/police reform ideas, and how competent the Dream Defenders leadership will be at harnessing their collective power. The verdict could be rallying point that gets people together to Do Something, or it could bring them together only until their underlying differences, and the the long odds against changing the SYG law, force them apart again. It’d surely help if SYG had actually been relevant to Zimmerman’s case, beyond just delaying his arrest (a decision that was vindicated by his acquittal). Given those long odds, shifting to their broader goals makes sense, but dilutes the message and threatens whatever anti-SYG coalition they have cobbled together. I’ll say this, also: the Dream Defenders’ apparent non-whites-only policy for leadership (“We are a human rights organization, directed by Black & Brown youth…”) makes me rather uncomfortable. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Both, as well as the relationship between the two. Well, Florida has [11.8 million](http://election.dos.state.fl.us/nvra/affiliation.asp) registered voters, of an adult population of about [14.3 million.](http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/99-total-population-by-child-and-adult-populations?loc=1&loct=2#detailed/2/10-19,2,20-29,3,30-39,4,40-49,5,50-52,6-9/false/867,133,38,35,18/39,40,41/416,417) [1.518 million are ineligible felons,](http://tbo.com/ap/politics/florida-leads-nation-with---of-adults-not-allowed-to-vote-430476) including 23% of the adult black population, a group the Dream Defenders plan to target. That leaves about 982,000 who are eligible and unregistered. If I had to wager, I’d bet on their failure to register 61,500: they just don’t seem all that well-organized; their publicized goal, repealing SYG, differs from their core mission; their base appears to be colleges and universities; and that’s a lot of work for an organization with a permanent staff of [5.](http://dreamdefenders.org/staff/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dream-defenders-month-long-sit-in-in-florida-state-capitol-continues/666195.md?page=2)