# "Drill Baby Drill"ers: I TOLD YOU SO!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261 "2010-05-13T02:45:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/101 "2010-05-15T17:35:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What was stopping you and/or the rest of the environmental left from investing in “green energy”? What was preventing you guys from harnessing the strength of “investment capitalism” to your own ends? Instead of telling us how much “we” bitched about it 40 years ago, what did you actually do about it? Well, I plowed all the profits from my tie-dye t-shirt business into it, but it was easily overmatched by the paper-clip budget for Exxon Mobil’s San Francisco office. Really, **John** , did you think about this before you hit that button? Extra credit question: Which group has the more influence in the halls of power? Would that be a) the Amish b) the hippies or c) British Petroleum? Take your time, think it over carefully… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/102 "2010-05-15T17:39:04Z")
Oh, and while we’re about it? What did you do? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/103 "2010-05-15T17:44:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I plowed all the profits from my tie-dye t-shirt business into it, but it was easily overmatched by the paper-clip budget for Exxon Mobil’s San Francisco office. > > Really, **John** , did you think about this before you hit that button? > > Extra credit question: Which group has the more influence in the halls of power? Would that be a) the Amish b) the hippies or c) British Petroleum? Take your time, think it over carefully… No, seriously. You said “we” were bitching about this. I want to know what you did about it. If it was such a great idea, why couldn’t you convince the rich lefties out there (and let’s not pretend there aren’t plenty) to invest in it? And I’m using “you” in the plural sense-- ie, the “we” in your post. You (the plural you) knew we would need this. Why didn’t you make it happen? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/104 "2010-05-15T17:46:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, and while we’re about it? What did you do? I’m not claiming I knew it would be a good investment. I’m not claiming to have been prescient 40 years ago (30 years ago would make more sense in my case). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/105 "2010-05-15T18:23:04Z")
Well, gosh, John, now that you mention it, its pretty embarrassing. I mean, its not like we weren’t widely admired and beloved. And its not like that here was ever any serious opposition. Or that the opposition had any power to thwart us. Given our massive and overwhelming support, especially from the business community and the Republican Party, there really is no good reason why we haven’t triumphed. No, you got me, I’m stumped. Can’t think of any good reason we didn’t win, unless it was all that pot. On the other hand, you can see adverts from BP and others, talking up about how green they are, how devoted they are to clean energy for our future. So, we have achieved hypocrisy, we have shamed them enough so that they at least try and deny it. Still, its taking a lot longer than we thought. We could use the help of clear-eyed realists such as yourself, if you’ve nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/106 "2010-05-15T18:42:10Z")
It’s not about a winner and a loser, as if this were a game and only one side can win. Different people invest in all sorts of different things all the time. There are many winners and many losers. Not to mention there are many different countries out there with different economic systems. No group, anywhere, had the wherewithall to put its money where its mouth was and actually put up some capital and take a risk? Or maybe they did, and it just didn’t work out (like the Synfuels the Carter administration and Congress in the 70s was sure was the way to go). It’s not about calling out hypocrisy. It’s about not giving a shit about what anyone “bitched” about 40 years ago. I’m more interested in what people did. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/107 "2010-05-15T19:54:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, and while we’re about it? What did you do? What I did 40 years ago was mostly fill my diaper with rich, steaming biomass. I’ll say what I do _now_ - every single week I work on projects to reduce pollution at power plants, including greenhouse gas emissions. In the past this was only a small part of my work, but it’s ramped up steadily over time such that although when I started out on this message board I was referred to as “the Coal Goddess”, at least 2/3 of all my work now is in the field of renewable energy, and almost all of the remaining 1/3 is working on other pollution control measures. I can’t claim I’m responsible unilaterally for almost all improvements I’ve helped make to reduce pollution over the years, but I am partially responsible many. And I’ve had some big successes too. In the last year one of my studies convinced a power plant to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions by 114,000 tonnes (about 125,000 US tons) per year, even though it ended up raising their costs by 0.21 cents/kWh. According to the IEA, the average American is responsible for 19.1 tonnes of CO2 emissions per year. So with my efforts I drove a project home which mitigated the CO2 emissions of about 5,968 people - probably about the number of active members of the SDMB. And I’m still working, and I love what I do. Because my _conservative_ philosophy tells me I must - protecting the environment is protecting both humanity and business, creating sustainability and looking at the long-haul, but with reasonable and scientifically valid approaches. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/108 "2010-05-15T20:05:14Z")
Is it a history lesson you’re a-hankering after? Can’t imagine why, but, sure, I guess. I suppose NASA, more than any one institution. They put money into solar to electricity to power their satellites, rovers, etc. They advanced the technology from impossible to absurdly expensive. Now, it appears to hover just below the threshold of practicality. And, I gotta say, the pictures. Pictures of the big wet blue marble, hanging in the middle of nowhere, does inspire the thought process of “Hey, that’s it! That’s all we got, fuck that up and we’re boned”. Stewart Brand, in a small but measurable way, with his Whole Earth Catalog and other projects. But really, its all about changing minds, isn’t it? Because if we have to wait for consumer capitalism and self-interested investment to lead the way, well, we might as well dig a few grandchildren-sized holes in the back yard, have them ready… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/109 "2010-05-15T20:08:33Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > What I did 40 years ago was mostly fill my diaper with rich, steaming biomass…and looking at the long-haul, but with reasonable and scientifically valid approaches. Good for you! Still have time for your “Queen of the Night” activities, I trust? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/110 "2010-05-15T21:03:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Good for you! Still have time for your “Queen of the Night” activities, I trust? I’ve been working 60+ hours a week for about 4 years now. The last time I had a vacation was 7 years and 10 months ago. Sure, I have time… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/111 "2010-05-15T22:59:15Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’ve been working 60+ hours a week for about 4 years now. The last time I had a vacation was 7 years and 10 months ago. Sure, I have time… Well, just so ya know, your vacations haven’t gone to waste. I’ve been using them (and a lot of other people’s too, maybe). If you had been there, you would have had just as great a time as I’ve been having, I’m sure. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/112 "2010-05-16T20:52:21Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Did Corporate America drop the ball? Did the government drop the ball? Many would say yes; I would say they barely had a ball to even play with in the first place. How does Esso or Marathon oil in 1968 sell a greener oil production method that costs more, when most folks are worried about gas going up 2 cents a gallon? How much do we spend on windmills when we’re in the quagmire of Vietnam? In a perfect world we would have got out of Vietnam sooner and spent the money on wind and solar, or developing a nuclear programme like France ended up with. (Then again, alternate history buffs may contend that changing the way Vietnam played out may have had all sorts of terrible consequences.) > > In a perfect world the concept of renewable energy as a National Security issue would sell much more with the Republican Party nowadays (but I’m not a Republican, so what do I know?). That’s how I see it, anyhow - become self-sufficient, stop the flow of trillions of dollars to the mullahs and tinpot dictators, and watch as their countries slowly slide back into irrelevance. I’d love nothing more than for the US to have a tax-fueled “Una Plan for Energy” in this country which would turn Saudi Arabia from being a giant money pit that leaks into 20 different terror organizations, into a hum-drum stop-over while connecting to someplace interesting. No disrespect here, but many would claim that involvement in quagmires like Vietnam as an ‘aw, shucks, we just don’t have the resources to worry about your concerns _and_ Vietnam’ excuse is a cornerstone in Imperial politics. Consider one of the applications of [_Divide et Impera_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule): > [@](#): > > encouraging frivolous expenditures that leave little money for political and military ends. Vietnam is about as frivolous an expenditure as can be imagined (depending on whom you ask I suppose). Same with the Iraq war. Aw gee whiz, while we have the most powerful empire in all of history, gol-darn it we just _can’t_ take effective action on the most pressing issues of the day as we are just sooooo tied up with all this useless horseshit and to do so would cut into the profits of certain VIPs… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/113 "2010-05-16T21:19:56Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > Really. If so, you are more of an idiot than I thought. I own a car, a pickup truck and a gas-guzzling motor home and I am enjoying the hell out of my life and don’t give a flying rat’s ass what my imprint does to the environment. > > I turn the lights out when I leave the room, but my life doesn’t revolve around saving the planet. Good ole mother earth will still be around long after we are. > > Gotta live now, dude. So you’re saying bikers don’t enjoy themselves? Or that people can’t have meaningful lives without penis land yachts? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/114 "2010-05-16T23:56:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Buh? I’ve **listened** to Yellow Submarine. I didn’t know **saw** was possible. Are you high, or am I drunk? Neither, you’re just a whole lot younger than you claim to be. Or else you’d know, see? Don’t you have final exams to study for, kid? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/115 "2010-05-17T00:38:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Neither, you’re just a whole lot younger than you claim to be. Or else you’d know, see? > > Don’t you have final exams to study for, kid? How old do you think I’ve claimed to be, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/116 "2010-05-17T20:00:35Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > According to the IEA, the average American is responsible for 19.1 tonnes of CO2 emissions per year. So with my efforts I drove a project home which mitigated the CO2 emissions of about 5,968 people - probably about the number of active members of the SDMB. > > And I’m still working, and I love what I do. Because my _conservative_ philosophy tells me I must - protecting the environment is protecting both humanity and business, creating sustainability and looking at the long-haul, but with reasonable and scientifically valid approaches. No offense, **Una** , but you must be thinking of some _other_ conservatism. I’ve got a decade and a half on you, and I don’t remember a time when American conservatism was about these things. At any rate, contemporary American conservatism is opposed to the obvious market-based tool to enable Americans to reduce that 19.1 tonnes: putting a price tag on it. And big government and all aside, that’s simply a matter of practicality. There’s really no way even very smart people like most of those here at the Dope can figure out how best to reduce their CO2 contribution, or be aware of what a difference one choice versus another makes. But if that externality becomes part of the out-of-pocket cost of this burger or that airplane ticket, we’ll save the world by making dollars-and-cents choices. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/117 "2010-05-18T15:32:03Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > No disrespect here, but many would claim that involvement in quagmires like Vietnam as an ‘aw, shucks, we just don’t have the resources to worry about your concerns _and_ Vietnam’ excuse is a cornerstone in Imperial politics. And some would claim that spending past your budget is the cornerstone of trash American culture. "Woo hoo, I can get a $500,000 home for no money down! Then I can get a new SUV with no money down! And I can go to Cabo and get drunk on $10 margaritas! Cabo, duuuuuude! No way am I a loser! And if I ever get in trouble, someone will bail me out! Debt reduction, bay-be! Only faggots and rodeo clowns save money and live within their means! Cabo!" :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Same with the Iraq war. Aw gee whiz, while we have the most powerful empire in all of history, gol-darn it we just _can’t_ take effective action on the most pressing issues of the day as we are just sooooo tied up with all this useless horseshit and to do so would cut into the profits of certain VIPs… Does the concept of National Debt have no meaning any more? I guess not; my experience with the SDMB over 10+ years indicates that I doubt more than 1/3 of the people here pay more than $500 in Federal taxes per year, and I’ll wager almost none pay the taxes I do. You know, me, the idiot who helps fund that National Debt. We should never have invaded Iraq. The money should have been spent on a Una Plan for Renewable, Sustainable, Energy Independence and Security. But Old Mr. Reality doesn’t listen to the likes of me; rather he jump pimp-slaps me every single day and says “bitch better pay for this War!” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/118 "2010-05-18T22:00:53Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > my experience with the SDMB over 10+ years indicates that I doubt more than 1/3 of the people here pay more than $500 in Federal taxes per year, and I’ll wager almost none pay the taxes I do. I’ve seen a couple of people say stuff like this recently, and I’m curious how it would shake out in reality. [I started a poll.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=563698) Granted, it’ll be skewed by self-reporting, but I’m interested to see the results nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/119 "2010-05-18T22:07:34Z")
I pay waaaaaay more taxes than that and that’s with 4 deductions and a family of five, including myself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261/120 "2010-05-19T02:36:19Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > …rather he jump pimp-slaps me every single day and says “bitch better pay for this War!” Damn,\*\* Una\*\* got street cred! …you see this **Una** is a baaaad..(shut yer mouth!)… But I was talking about **Una**?! (Well, we can dig it!)… **Una,** dog? Tighty-righty but you cool, you fill me straight, you wrong, but you true. And true is for sure, and right and wrong is for later. Share it with you anywhere, anytime, 24, 7, 365. Peace out. The **E.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drill-baby-drill-ers-i-told-you-so/539261.md?page=7)