# Drinking problem?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 24, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421 "2013-07-24T21:42:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/61 "2013-07-26T05:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. 1]
This doesn’t mean those people necessarily need to stop drinking entirely or forever, just that they choose to because it is the best lifestyle choice for them.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sure spouses and children would hope they would choose it as well, since living with a drunk can tend to suck azz.
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/62 "2013-07-26T06:14:04Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> This.
>
> This is real. This happens. But to AA this is heresy. To AA it is absolutely impossible, and they employ a tautology to prove it’s impossibility. Goes like this: “Well if your brother is able to drink normally then he was never an alcoholic in the first place!” Which is a convenient, pat answer (not to mention disingenuous) considering that if **astro** ’s brother had walked into an AA meeting when he was a ‘serious problem drinker’ in his 20’s he would have unanimously been told that he was clearly an alcoholic and must never drink again.
Probably because part of being an alcoholic means you CAN’T control your drinking. It’s kind of the definition, you know? But AA members aren’t always perfect, you know?
And please, do see a doctor, just in case. I had a relative almost die from the DTs.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/63 "2013-07-26T07:40:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Probably because part of being an alcoholic means you CAN’T control your drinking.
Yes. At least until you start controlling your drinking at which point you suddenly, magically, were never an alcoholic in the first place. Even though all the 12-Steppers you met at meetings insisted that you were, and told you you were in denial. Some folks move the goalposts.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/64 "2013-07-26T10:55:09Z")
> [@Girlundone](#):
>
> I’m sure spouses and children would hope they would choose it as well, since living with a drunk can tend to suck azz.
Unless theirs is a shared proclivity, in which case it can be perfect.
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### Author:  [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/65 "2013-07-26T13:41:37Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#):
>
> I’m confused by these people saying quit cold turkey to an OP has been drinking out of control every single day and describes her drinking as compulsive. I thought alcohol was the most dangerous detox in that you can actually die from withdrawal?
Yup. Alcohol withdrawal can kill you and the safest way to detox is under medical supervision. Advice from anonymous people on the Internet should always be taken with a grain of salt, especially when it concerns health issues.
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/66 "2013-07-26T13:49:43Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> This.
>
> This is real. This happens. But to AA this is heresy. To AA it is absolutely impossible, and they employ a tautology to prove it’s impossibility. Goes like this: “Well if your brother is able to drink normally then he was never an alcoholic in the first place!” Which is a convenient, pat answer (not to mention disingenuous) considering that if **astro** ’s brother had walked into an AA meeting when he was a ‘serious problem drinker’ in his 20’s he would have unanimously been told that he was clearly an alcoholic and must never drink again.
>
> The whole preachy, churchy, God thing that **dropzone** mentions _is_ annoying as hell but it’s not even the biggest problem with AA. The biggest problem is they treat anyone and everyone who comes to them for help as a confirmed alcoholic who must never again drink alcohol.
>
> Paradoxically, that biggest problem is also why AA is effective for some people. Some people need that quasi-religious approach. But it’s like giving chemotherapy to every patient in a hospital, regardless of their condition. Broken bone? Tummy ache? Hemorrhoids? No, no, no… you’re in denial. You have cancer, you just can’t admit it yet. Give 'em the chemo, stat!
>
> It’s like carpet bombing–yeah, you got the target all right, but a whole bunch of other folks who shouldn’t have been involved got caught in the firestorm. Collateral damage.
Consuming alcohol is not a necessity. If you show up at an AA meeting of your own volition and you’re not a tourist, you clearly think you have a problem. Not drinking=problem solved. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying you can’t drink, AA is entirely voluntary.
Like I said before, the only person who can solve your problem is you.
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### Author:  [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/67 "2013-07-26T13:53:15Z")
I used to drink like this. I thought I was happy with my life but I wasn’t. I was lazy at work (most of the time I was hungover) and had no ambition. I was unhealthy and never got any exercise. I always ate crap food when I was drinking, which is a double whammy for someone with an eating disorder.
I had to quit or lose my husband, so I quit four and a half years ago. I went to outpatient treatment for three weeks, have continued regular therapy since then (once a month or so to talk about this and other things), and had two quick relapses wherein I realized I could never go back because I can’t drink in moderation.
Here’s the thing - I think about how I thought I was generally happy then and I am so far beyond that level of happiness now it’s unbelievable. Why? I have TIME. Time I spent drinking and dealing with the fallout (fights, hangovers, hiding the problem, etc.) is now spent on my career, my activities, and university. I’m doing my Masters (done this November _fist pump_), I am an amateur cyclist and have started racing, and I found a great career opportunity just over two years ago and am very happy with the company. My career and earning potential is on a sharp upward trajectory - my salary has doubled in the last four years. My husband and I are happier then ever and we deal with other struggles (like infertility, which is hard on individuals and couples) much better then we would if I was half drunk or hungover when they came up.
I’m just really happy with my life. I would never be here if I was still drinking.
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### Author:  [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/68 "2013-07-26T14:04:02Z")
Fear is a great motivator most of the time for humans.
Watch this series, [Rain in my heart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0InrPZpjg) if you need motivation.
You only get one liver.
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### Author:  [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/69 "2013-07-26T14:08:57Z")
[QUOTE=kayaker]
Unless theirs is a shared proclivity, in which case it can be perfect.
[/QUOTE]
True, with spouses. I’m not sure children would pick having drunks for parents, but I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
Consuming alcohol is not a necessity.
[/QUOTE]
This! Why would anyone expend excessive mental energy and risk important things in life trying to moderate something that is in no way necessary, unless of course they have an addiction to it.
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### Author:  [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/70 "2013-07-26T14:29:23Z")
Fear rarely works to deter people from drinking themselves to death. It seems so odd to non-alcoholics. Why wouldn’t they be afraid of losing their families, their health, their status, their lives?
I suppose the answer lays in the fact that alcohol is a mood-altering drug. People use it to numb unpleasant feelings.
A (not so) funny story I once heard from a man who went through aversion therapy. He said every morning was heaven. They shot him up with the drug that made him sick when he drank and then served the alcohol - as much as he wanted. Then he’d throw up, throw up, rinse and repeat. Said it didn’t work on him, though. Why? “Heck, that was the way I drank at home.”
It’s a mystery, this illness. And writers here who say it comes in many forms are correct. Predictions of who will and who won’t become an alcoholic though, are very difficult. If you are male and have an alcoholic father your chances aren’t good.
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### Author:  [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/71 "2013-07-26T14:58:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Fear rarely works to deter people from drinking themselves to death
I wouldn’t say “rarely”. Yeah, there are cases of people continuing to the point of living under a bridge, but very often fear works as the initial impetus for an addicted person to quit.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/72 "2013-07-26T15:10:52Z")
> [@want2befree](#):
>
> If I have stopped drinking for say, 3 days and was fine, would you say that I shan’t worry about DTs?
If you are not suffering the DTs or have other severe withdrawal symptoms after 3 days of not drinking at all it’s a very high probability you primarily have (at this point) a lifestyle and compulsive behavior issue to contend with, not a true physical addiction.
The good news is that while it is still double tough to change dysfunctional habits you have grown behaviorally attached to, it’s a lot more possible to do this than if you were hardcore physically addicted to alcohol.
You need to figure out what empty spaces alcohol is filling in your life and fill those spaces with other activities and interests. Assuming alcohol has not been doing your body any favors one route many take to change dysfunctional habits is to get a good personal trainer for at least 3 times a week sessions. I have found the more you work out the easier is to control your diet and consumption behavior. Plus you begin to have a time and personal investment in being healthy.
You need to set up a different schedule of interests and activities in your life so you don’t find yourself lounging around horny and bored and alcohol is the magic solution. If you want to step away from problem drinking you need to do these things.
On a side note you may actually be able to drink normally again at some point in the future if you can get your alcohol centric lifestyle issues under control.
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### Author:  [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/73 "2013-07-26T19:40:12Z")
And since we seem to eventually gravitate towards people whose drinking style is similar to ours, it’s easier to quit if you hang around people who drink moderately. Or better yet, not at all.
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### Author:  [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/74 "2013-07-26T19:58:25Z")
> [@Girlundone](#):
>
> I wouldn’t say “rarely”. Yeah, there are cases of people continuing to the point of living under a bridge, but very often fear works as the initial impetus for an addicted person to quit.
I wouldn’t argue with fear working as an initial impetus for a problem drinker to quit. The question is always at what point does a bad habit become an illness? Sometimes others can see. But for healing only the drinker can say.
Fear has a way of dissipating when the next opportunity to drink presents itself to an alcoholic. As **astro** notes, it’s probably not enough to find a reason to quit. A healthy lifestyle has to be constructed.
The experience is one of finding one’s self saying," Why did I do that? I wasn’t going to drink again." That’s the trademark of the illness. Because it truly is an illness once physical addiction has begun. You can’t ameliorate an illness with fear.
And mid- to late-state alcoholics don’t experience fear as a non-alcoholics do. Tell them, “You’re going to die if you keep doing that,” and nearly invariably the response will either be denial or, “Yes, I know.” (So what?)
It’s a sad fact that most of the people who become alcoholics die practicing alcoholics.
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### Author:  [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/75 "2013-07-26T20:09:28Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#):
>
> And since we seem to eventually gravitate towards people whose drinking style is similar to ours, it’s easier to quit if you hang around people who drink moderately. Or better yet, not at all.
If alcohol is causing problems in someone’s life or if they can’t control quantity consumed they might be better off abstaining, but I believe there’s plenty of research that shows moderate consumption is actually a health benefit.
[Cite](http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html)
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### Author:  [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/76 "2013-07-26T20:14:12Z")
Tethered Kite, none of what you posted is even remotely accurate. First of all, that an addiction to a substance is an “ism” is a theory, as is defining addiction as an illness. Those are theories, not fact.
I’d like to know on what you base this ridiculous little nugget:
> [@](#):
>
> And mid- to late-state alcoholics don’t experience fear as a non-alcoholics do.
And to this claim:
> [@](#):
>
> It’s a sad fact that most of the people who become alcoholics die practicing alcoholics.
You have no basis. None. There would be no way to accurately measure that.
IMO, this kind of nonsense is a direst result of the big business of recoveryism, at least in the US. People regurgitating crap like this just continues the misconceptions surrounding addiction and best practices regarding treatment.
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### Author:  [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/77 "2013-07-26T20:31:49Z")
[QUOTE=Trom]
If alcohol is causing problems in someone’s life or if they can’t control quantity consumed they might be better off abstaining, but I believe there’s plenty of research that shows moderate consumption is actually a health benefit.
[/QUOTE]
If you think that cite links to “plenty of research”, you might want to read it again. The page says its goal is “to stimulate thought and discussion about alcohol issues.” That’s it.
Oh and the author states several times, that he wants to be clear that no entity that supports the sale of alcohol provides his site any funding at all. But then there’s this a little further down the disclaimer page:
> [@](#):
>
> The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States, Inc. provided an unrestricted grant that was used to help defray the expenses incurred in establishing this web site in 1997,
Yeah. Ok. That totally makes sense.
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### Author:  [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/78 "2013-07-26T20:41:38Z")
> [@Girlundone](#):
>
> If you think that cite links to “plenty of research”, you might want to read it again. The page says its goal is “to stimulate thought and discussion about alcohol issues.” That’s it.
The page consists of page after page of research studies and conclusions along with 188 citations at the bottom. I think you might want to read it for the first time.
> [@](#):
>
> Many individuals and organizations have contributed in various ways to the success of the site, but none are responsible for its content in any way. The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States, Inc. provided an unrestricted grant that was used to help defray the expenses incurred in establishing this web site in 1997, for which funding also was received from the State University of New York College at Potsdam, the College Foundation of SUNY Potsdam, and Gene Ford. Continuing support from SUNY Potsdam has facilitated its growth since that time. It receives no support from anyone associated in any way with the the alcohol industry.
An industry group provided some cash for servers of a site that provides scientific research on its industry in a reasonable and balanced way. Which of the 188 cited studies do you object to?
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### Author:  [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/79 "2013-07-26T20:48:07Z")
> [@Girlundone](#):
>
> Tethered Kite, none of what you posted is even remotely accurate. First of all, that an addiction to a substance is an “ism” is a theory, as is defining addiction as an illness. Those are theories, not fact.
> I’d like to know on what you base this ridiculous little nugget:
>
> And to this claim:
> You have no basis. None. There would be no way to accurately measure that.
>
> IMO, this kind of nonsense is a direst result of the big business of recoveryism, at least in the US. People regurgitating crap like this just continues the misconceptions surrounding addiction and best practices regarding treatment.
Is this your personal opinion or do you have reputable cites to back this rude post up?
---
### Author:  [@want2befree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2befree)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drinking-problem/664421/80 "2013-07-26T20:51:58Z")
Thanks all. You dont have to worry about me getting sick or dying from the DTs because I highly doubt I would go cold turkey. I might try to taper if anything.
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