# Drive a Tesla, get Sieg Heils? Apparently it ain’t easy being green any more **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 11, 2025, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416 "2025-03-11T03:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/101 "2025-03-11T17:17:35Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The idea the anyone bought a Tesla primarily for the economy is a new one on me. Not saying no one has ever made that decision (or SAID that was their reason!). Just that I never heard it, and always thought they were priced at a level that would be somewhat above “economy” level. Always suspected for many if not most, there was at least some element of luxury/novelty signaling involved. Similar to a BMW or Mercedes. I’m not saying you’re not right, but of the people I know who could afford luxury cars, some chose to drive luxury cars, while others never did; and while some members of the first group now drive Teslas, most of them are driving various other luxury cars. Meanwhile, in the group that could have afforded a luxury car in the past but never chose to buy one (presumably because they didn’t value status enough to spend money on it in this way), Teslas are now quite common - and no other luxury car is. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/102 "2025-03-11T17:22:58Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Serious, nonjudgmental question - what is your math as to the environmental “cost” of producing the batteries? How long are they expected to last? What is the dollar/environmental cost of replacing/disposing of them? (Sorry if this is hijacking.) Many threads on this. Yes, it costs money to produce batteries. Yes, mining the materials causes environmental damage. You know what else causes environmental damage? Drilling and fracking for fossil fuels. You know what can be recycled? Used batteries, do you know what can’t? Burned oil. Bottom line is, given normal lifetime and use of a car, over its whole life, an EV is far more environmentally friendly than a similarly sized ICE car. Make stupid rules, like “impact off the lot” and you can skew the numbers anyway you like. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > The idea the anyone bought a Tesla primarily for the economy is a new one on me. I’m pretty sure that everyone who bought a Tesla did it, at least in large part, because it is an EV. Or by economy do you not mean “fuel economy,” but because it saves money? That is still quite possible, but you need to compare **equivelent** cars. So an ICE luxury sedan, SUV, or minivan to a 3/S, Y, or X. Comparing a $60,000 new luxury car to a 10 year old Honda Fit is not valid. In a comparable case, it will cost a lot less to drive 15,000 miles per year in a Model 3 than an Audi A4. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/103 "2025-03-11T17:28:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > presumably because they didn’t value status enough to spend money on it in this way Luxury \ne status. It can, but it does not have to. This is one of those things that really annoys me in any discussion about cars. Sometimes a sports car is just a fun car to drive, sometimes a luxury car is because the owner wants a nice place to be while driving. People buy nice things for reasons other than “status”. Sort of a reductio ad Toyota Yaris. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/104 "2025-03-11T17:29:18Z")
This just came up on my Facebook: [[Album] Get my name of your shitty cars, Nazi - Album on Imgur ![](https://i.imgur.com/kXTxtUl.jpeg?fb "Get my name of your shitty cars, Nazi - Album on Imgur") ](https://imgur.com/gallery/2y6gQJv) It makes a good point 🙂 And my first thought was yeah, it takes a special kind of asshole to name your car company after someone whose family was killed by Fascists\*, and then turn into Nazi saluting fascist dickwad. True he was probably a fascist dickwad all along and I don’t think he named Tesla but still `*` - many members of his family were killed in Jasenovac concentration camp in Yugoslavia during WW2 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/105 "2025-03-11T17:38:25Z")
Good point a few posts back included in the money savings is no oil changes and other service. It was several hundred dollars for the 60k service on my Civic. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/106 "2025-03-11T18:02:05Z")
> [@chela](#): > > 47 announced on TS his plan to buy one, musk thanked him If Tesla sales continue to drop to near-zero, I wonder if Trump will solve the problem: he could issue an executive order that all government departments which buy new fleet vehicles must buy only Teslas. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/107 "2025-03-11T18:07:25Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Or by economy do you not mean “fuel economy,” but because it saves money? Of course. I was posting immediately following this coment: > [@Babale](#): > > it would pay for itself by saving gas money. I’ve always thought the $/environmental “cost” equation much more complicated than many suggest - at least if you do not generate your own solar. If you are fueling your EV with electricity generated by some coal powered plant, that needs to be figured in. And I’m still a tad unsettled about the range issues. For me, the likely BEST option would be to have one EV for the majority of my driving around town, and one ICE/hybrid for the occasional road trips. In reality, I’ve decided the best option for me at the moment is to have one reasonably efficient ICE which I do not drive much at all (maybe 6k/year.) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/108 "2025-03-11T18:09:10Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > many members of his family were killed in Jasenovac concentration camp in Yugoslavia during WW2 Yeah, he’s a distant relative of mine (quite distant, like second cousin multiple generations ago distant) and that side of my family in the Old Country was in fact substantially wiped out in WW II by Nazis and Ustaše. But Tesla was also something of a eugenicist, so I wouldn’t hold him up as a relative paragon of social morality - he and Elon might even have gotten along in some ways. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/109 "2025-03-11T18:50:16Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > If you are fueling your EV with electricity generated by some coal powered plant, that needs to be figured in They have been. Bottom line is that even if you’re getting electricity from coal plants, you’re still at a carbon advantage over burning gasoline. Additionally, EVs get more efficient when the power grid gets more efficient. All of these are valid questions, but have really been answered in the last 10 years to EV’s advantage. Don’t confuse anger at Musk with the viability of EVs. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/110 "2025-03-11T18:59:15Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Don’t confuse anger at Musk with the viability of EVs. My understanding - reflecting more than superficial research a couple of times over the past 10 years - is that assessing the advantages of EV is MUCH more complicated than many suggest. And that for ME, given my current situation and driving habits, EV was not currently clearly the superior choice. _(If you are aware of clear uncontested fact-based and value-independent research and reports, I’d love it if you provided the cites. I’m always happy to educate myself and revisit my presumptions. And - eventually - I suspect at some point I will be buying a new car. But IME, much of the info is loaded with qualifiers and generalities, or comes from seemingly biased sources.)_ My current car is 3-4 years old. I’ll see how things look when I decide to replace it. But right now, “I couldn’t afford to take the loss” involved in dumping it! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/111 "2025-03-11T19:07:10Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I wouldn’t hold him up as a relative paragon of social morality I would be happy to hold him up a _relative_ paragon of social morality, relative to someone who does Nazi salutes in 2025 while over throwing a democratic Republic, he is an absolute paragon of social morals whatever his dodgy views on eugenics (which were AFAIK not particularly extreme for the time, when lots of leading figures had them). He was ultimately fundamentally opposed to the Nazis and his later attempts to build a death ray (however unfeasible and basically bonkers) were in order to aid Yugoslavia against Nazi occupation (and pay his hotel bills) ---
**Author:** ![Frilly\_Heck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90ced4/32.png) [@Frilly\_Heck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frilly_Heck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/112 "2025-03-11T19:11:22Z")
> **[Don’t Buy a Ford Ever Again, ca. 1960 | Gilder Lehrman Institute of American...](https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/dont-buy-ford-ever-again-ca-1960)** > > Don’t Buy a Ford Ever Again, ca. 1960 | New Orleans in 1960 was sharply divided over the practice of segregation. The schools were ordered to desegregate, which angered many white people. Members of the Citizens’ Council of Greater New Orleans... I’d heard of Jewish people boycotting Ford even in my lifetime (I was born in the late 70’s). But it turns out white supremacists tried to boycott Ford as well. Cancel culture strikes again! ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/113 "2025-03-11T19:15:12Z")
I’m sympathetic in part. As I’ve mentioned in other threads, my brother got a Tesla now a little over three years ago, both because he liked it to drive (the acceleration blew his mind) and the reduction in fossil fuel use. He went further, and invested in a Tesla Powerwall and Solar setup, which further compounds the cost/benefit analysis when it comes to deciding what to do with the car going forward. He’s far wealthier than I, and granted the Powerwall and solar would be useful even without a Tesla, but tossing the car at current prices, and _just as importantly_ buying another is a noticeable cost. He too though has the “bought before Elon went full Nazi” bumper sticker. His current plan is to keep it as-is for 1-3 years, and then get a new EV (depending on type). BUT, he’s now a lot more hesitant about going forward with his prior plan of giving it to my nephew (15 years old now god help my aged bones!) which was the prior plan. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/114 "2025-03-11T19:20:51Z")
All of the “which costs more or is environmentally worse?” arguments get muddied by the folks who insist cars must be driven until they fall apart versus the folks who get new ones often. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/115 "2025-03-11T19:22:01Z")
But don’t take it personally. 😄 Same goes for those who’ve poured money into Truth Social stock. [You’ve got _entertainment_](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-goes-on-insane-truth-social-posting-spree-as-stock-market-freefalls/). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/116 "2025-03-11T19:39:20Z")
I don’t have time to dig up the studies, they are there, but for you it is pretty moot. You live in Illinois where the majority of our electricity is nuclear and a decent chunk is renewables. [Electricity Generation Mix](https://cleanenergy.illinois.gov/tracking-illinois-progress/electricity-generation-mix.html#:~:text=As%20of%202023%2C%20Illinois%20generates,%2C%20hydropower%2C%20and%20biomass)). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/117 "2025-03-11T20:00:22Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > That’s what tilted the numbers for us, back when we still had our Tesla. We could use our excess solar capacity more productively by putting it in the battery vs selling it back to the power company. Right. EVERYONE I know here in SoCal that has a EV or even a PHEV has solar, and the vehicle is mainly charged with free solar power. Not coal, not natural gas, not whatever. Free solar. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > If you are fueling your EV with electricity generated by some coal powered plant, that needs to be figured in. No one I know is. That is a MAGA talking point- they hate EVs. Mind you, I am sure somewhere a few people do that, sure- like at public charging stations. But in CA over half of electricity is renewable. > [@echoreply](#): > > Don’t confuse anger at Musk with the viability of EVs. Right. Plenty of other EVs out there. But the MAGAs hate EVs- even Musk ones. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/118 "2025-03-11T20:03:16Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > If you are fueling your EV with electricity generated by some coal powered plant, that needs to be figured in. “Heat engines” like coal and internal combustion engines become more efficient with size; even if the power plant is coal that’s probably better than many thousands of _much_ smaller, more inefficient gasoline engines. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/119 "2025-03-11T20:08:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Illinois where the majority of our electricity is nuclear and a decent chunk is renewables. Looking at your link, while 55% IS a majority, 31% fossil fuel ain’t exactly negligible. Not something I keep on top of, but IIRC, the most recent plant approvals here in IL were for coal burners. Yeah, a coal plant is cleaner than a bunch of car engines (and don’t get me started on 2-stroke engines.) But - as I said - IMO the equation gets muddy pretty quick. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416/120 "2025-03-11T20:11:04Z")
I agree that an EV probably doesn’t make sense for your use case but as you said, the calculus is super murky and ever changing so who knows in a few years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drive-a-tesla-get-sieg-heils-apparently-it-ain-t-easy-being-green-any-more/1015416.md?page=7)