# Driverless formula one cars? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 26, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919 "2011-06-26T17:32:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/1 "2011-06-26T17:32:18Z")
Watching a F1 race today, I was struck by how much technology is involved. I’m thinking that a car could be equipped and programmed to run a circuit, sans other cars, at top speed and without a driver. Including pit stops which _would_ be manned. I’m assuming that all controls are “by wire”. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that someone has already done so. Question is, is it possible given today’s technology? Four tires in under four seconds! Holy crap! Peace, mangeorge\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/2 "2011-06-26T22:52:08Z")
Possible, yes. Worth the price, not so much. There is an automotive test facility near my place that has an oval that has driverless semi-trucks and motorhomes circulating at all hours. Kinda weird to see that going down. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/3 "2011-06-26T23:18:53Z")
Certainly not worth the price individually, but we do a lot of stuff like that. Much that we enjoy today comes out of that kind of experimentation. I see promise for a system that could take over if the driver becomes no longer able to manage for whatever reason and at least bring the car to a stop in a safe place. Automatically calling for help is already a reality. An Onstar type service could even switch control to a remote station where someone would guide the car safely to a hospital. I think gps and accelerometer technology is pretty close to that good. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/4 "2011-06-26T23:36:46Z")
AI pathfinding for vehicles is a hot topic, a simple circuit is possible, but it’s still a big race to get a good driverless vehicle going on land\*. Oddly, I think racing may be easier than city driving, though, since racing involves less deciding whether you need to stop or go and is more continuous. - I hear google is getting in on it now, attempting to make a car for the blind that runs off AI or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/5 "2011-06-27T01:08:14Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > AI pathfinding for vehicles is a hot topic, a simple circuit is possible, but it’s still a big race to get a good driverless vehicle going on land\*. Oddly, I think racing may be easier than city driving, though, since racing involves less deciding whether you need to stop or go and is more continuous. > > - I hear google is getting in on it now, attempting to make a car for the blind that runs off AI or somesuch. Top Gear showed a BMW which “learnt” their track and then rove it witout driver input and good speed. [Video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRF_KaWzxq4) ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/6 "2011-06-27T01:25:04Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Watching a F1 race today, I was struck by how much technology is involved. I’m thinking that a car could be equipped and programmed to run a circuit, sans other cars, at top speed and without a driver. Including pit stops which _would_ be manned. > I’m assuming that all controls are “by wire”. > In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that someone has already done so. > Question is, is it possible given today’s technology? > Four tires in under four seconds! Holy crap! > Peace, > mangeorge\*\* Possible? Perhaps. But somehow I think that would kill the fun of the sport to be missing these “athletes.” Then again, they got rid of those child jockeys in camel races, so I suppose anything’s possible! ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/7 "2011-06-27T01:33:47Z")
I love that show. I _hate_ those guys! I mean, I don’t get to do that. Thanks **antonio107** , for that. Almost gave me a, you know. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/8 "2011-06-27T01:40:20Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > Possible? Perhaps. But somehow I think that would kill the fun of the sport to be missing these “athletes.” > > Then again, they got rid of those child jockeys in camel races, so I suppose anything’s possible! Nah, don’t get rid of the drivers. It would be fun though, to see an annual "man vs machine race starring thet year’s top driver. Revenge of the nerds, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/9 "2011-06-29T02:50:47Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > Possible? Perhaps. But somehow I think that would kill the fun of the sport to be missing these “athletes.” > > Then again, they got rid of those child jockeys in camel races, so I suppose anything’s possible! You don’t believe they are athletes? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/10 "2011-06-29T03:07:15Z")
I don’t see any reason it would be impossible. Unlikely to see broad use though; the danger is part of the show. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/11 "2011-06-29T13:09:01Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I don’t see any reason it would be impossible. Unlikely to see broad use though; the danger is part of the show. As long as they keep giving us really cool wrecks where nobody gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/12 "2011-06-29T13:17:27Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > As long as they keep giving us really cool wrecks where nobody gets hurt. Really cool wrecks are nice. But with the knowledge that nobody could get hurt, there are no drama, bloodthirst and necrovoyeuristic elements. I believe those are a major part of such sports. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/13 "2011-06-29T13:22:37Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#): > > You don’t believe they are athletes? Eh. Quotation marks, take 'em or leave them. I’ve never seen a fat F1 driver, but I question to what extent it’s the physicality of the body, and to what extent it’s just reflexes like playing Starcraft. If you want to call them athletes I’ll support that. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/14 "2011-06-29T13:34:47Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > Eh. Quotation marks, take 'em or leave them. I’ve never seen a fat F1 driver, but I question to what extent it’s the physicality of the body, and to what extent it’s just reflexes like playing Starcraft. If you want to call them athletes I’ll support that. F1 drivers have to use special weight machines just to exercise their necks so they can withstand the G-Forces. [BBC: F1 drivers are athletes too](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6980337.stm) ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/15 "2011-06-29T15:12:50Z")
Here’s a youtube video of this year’s McLaren being controlled via Bluetooth. This isn’t strictly “driverless”, but it shows you don’t need a carbon blob in the seat to run the car. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/c35atwETpTo/hqdefault.jpg "McLaren controlled by Bluetooth") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c35atwETpTo) (It comes after the bit about the guys playing with Bluetooth controlled racecars.) I don’t see how removing the human element from the game would make for a compelling sport. At that point it is merely a technical exercise. And sure that’s part of F1, but not enough to keep it as popular as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/16 "2011-06-29T16:22:53Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > F1 drivers have to use special weight machines just to exercise their necks so they can withstand the G-Forces. > > [BBC: F1 drivers are athletes too](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6980337.stm) …and they have to be absurdly light. Jenson Button weighs 70kg (154 lb) being 1.81 (5’11"). ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/17 "2011-06-29T18:32:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > …and they have to be absurdly light. Jenson Button weighs 70kg (154 lb) being 1.81 (5’11"). That is not absurdly light. That is in the middle of the normal BMI range. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/18 "2011-06-29T23:45:04Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > That is not absurdly light. That is in the middle of the normal BMI range. It is if you’re a guy who’s also very athelic and strong. When I was a 20 I was had basically the same numbers and was a scrawny thing. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/19 "2011-06-30T03:23:32Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > F1 drivers have to use special weight machines just to exercise their necks so they can withstand the G-Forces. > > [BBC: F1 drivers are athletes too](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6980337.stm) Lol, I don’t even need to click the link. That title is perfect. I stand corrected! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919/20 "2011-06-30T06:01:06Z")
I think the real challenge would be to teach the AI to “feel” the slip of the tires for max performance. In my opinion, the lap time of a top driver would probably best the maximum of a driverless car by maybe a couple of tenths a lap (depending on circuit length) just because you can’t teach a computer to “hang it out”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driverless-formula-one-cars/586919.md?page=2)