Drivers. Getting worse?

[Punoqllads]

*Originally posted by kasuo *
Getting into the inside lane when making a right turn is not illegal.

It depends upon the state. In NC, where I used to live, you’re required to turn into the rightmost lane following a right turn, or the leftmost lane, following a left turn. After that, you must change lanes normally to get to the one you want. In CA, where I now live, you can turn into any lane, requiring folks turning left to yield to opposing traffic making right-hand turns.

[occ]

*Originally posted by Steve-o *
**This is probably more of a case of you getting older, and more mature, and noticing the irresponsible behaviors that have been there all along. When I was little, I can remember my parents complaining about the very same things you are complaining about. I know that I am now more likely to notice the bad driving behaviors in others that I used to not notice in others when I was exhibiting them myself (in my younger years). **

In all seriousness, most people I see committing the aforementioned offenses have been adults. Middle-aged adults. This is especially true of the not-signalling bit; teenagers may drive like assholes, but at least they signal what lane they’re changing to ;).

[BuddyG]

*Originally posted by bernse *
…No signaling. At all. You will be following these people, and all of a sudden they hit the brakes and turn off the road. Or change lanes and the person in the other lane has to slow down for the moron. This is by far my biggest pet peeve. Is it that hard to do?

Consider this…
I live in a major metropolitan area and over time have been conditioned to use turn signals less & less, for pragmatic reasons! You see, when using turn signals, at least 50% of the time, the driver in the other lane takes it as his/her queue to speed-up and close the gap. Therefore, the hell with the damn signal, I’m changing lanes.

[iamthewalrus_3]

Originally posted by kasuo
Getting into the inside lane when making a right turn is not illegal.

Originally posted by Punoqllads
It depends upon the state. In NC, where I used to live, you’re required to turn into the rightmost lane following a right turn, or the leftmost lane, following a left turn. After that, you must change lanes normally to get to the one you want. In CA, where I now live, you can turn into any lane, requiring folks turning left to yield to opposing traffic making right-hand turns.

Sorry. That’s just not true. I live in CA, have lived here all my life, and took Driver’s Ed 2 years ago. I distinctly remember that, when turning right, you MUST turn into the rightmost lane. I am pretty sure that this is a nation-wide standard, too.

When you think about it, it fits other traffic rules about trying to minimize waiting time. If the right-turning people have to use that lane, oncoming traffic can safely turn left at the same time (as long as no one is going straight). Unfortunately, however, as no one seems to obey that law, it can be very dangerous to assume that you can safely turn left.

Here’s another legal turn that most people don’t understand. You can enter the suicide lane (two-way left-turn lane in the center of the road while starting OR finishing a left turn. People going past in the normal lanes often honk and make gestures when I am making a left turn onto a busy street, and using that lane. I always honk back.

[Punoqllads]

*Originally posted by iamthewalrus(:3= *
Sorry. That’s just not true. I live in CA, have lived here all my life, and took Driver’s Ed 2 years ago. I distinctly remember that, when turning right, you MUST turn into the rightmost lane. I am pretty sure that this is a nation-wide standard, too.

I could be misremembering this, but I believe that one of the questions on my CA driver’s test involved this fact. Tell you what: I’ll go to the DMV some time before Monday of next week, and bring back the driver’s packet and report the straight dope.

[brad_d]

According to California’s online 2000 Driver License Handbook, in the section dealing with turns:

When turning right, you must finish in the right-most lane of the road onto which you’re turning;

When turning left, you may finish in any lane of the street onto which you’re turning “if it is safe to do so.”

Signs/road markings indicating otherwise change both of the above rules.

Curiously, though, when turning right from one one-way street onto another, you may finish the turn in any traffic lane - they point this out very carefully a few examples down the page.

That said, in practice right-hand turns seem to end pretty much wherever they want. I’m guilty of it myself from time to time, although I try to avoid it.

[brad_d]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by iamthewalrus(:3= *
**

Here’s another legal turn that most people don’t understand. You can enter the suicide lane (two-way left-turn lane in the center of the road while starting OR finishing a left turn. People going past in the normal lanes often honk and make gestures when I am making a left turn onto a busy street, and using that lane. I always honk back. **

Actually, this makes it sound like you’re required to use the turn lane in the fashion you describe. Almost nobody does, though.

[Phobos]

nah…I’d say that the problem is that there are MORE drivers. The overcrowding is bringing out the worst in people (and statistically…the increased number of drivers driving increases the chances of accidents and dumb-moves occurring/being observed)

[moodtobestewed]

*Originally posted by brad_d *
**According to California’s online 2000 Driver License Handbook, in the section dealing with turns:

When turning right, you must finish in the right-most lane of the road onto which you’re turning;

When turning left, you may finish in any lane of the street onto which you’re turning “if it is safe to do so.”

**

Hmmm, interesting. The caveat “if it is safe to do so” certainly clouds the issue. Also, I sense a little leeway being given to the right hand turner when it says you must FINISH in the right hand lane (which is slightly different from saying you must never cross into the inner lane). Of course, it tells the right-hand turner “Do not swing wide into another lane of traffic” but how you’d expect someone driving an 18 wheeler or bus to obey this is beyond me. It’s simply not possible in many (most?) cases.

You might try finding the California code that deals with this. I’d imagine if you took the DMV booklet into court as evidence the judge would have a good laugh at your expense, but the laws themselves may address it more clearly (eh, probably not).

Here’s the section of Georgia law that addresses the question:

(a) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:

(1) Right turn. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway;

Pretty fuzzy I’d say, and later it adds this:

The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right of way to any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction which is within the intersection or so close thereto as to constitute an immediate hazard.

I cannot find where it specifically addresses who is at fault if two cars collide in such a circumstance, and I’d guess that has to happen pretty often.

I think we need someone with law enforcement experience to give us the straight dope on who is ticketed when such collisions occur.

Regardless of the actual laws, however, I will say (IMHO, of course) it’s simply a BAD IDEA for a person turning left to try to squeeze onto a road at the same time someone else is turning right. Just wait two more seconds - it’s not going to kill you to yield!

[brad_d]

Originally posted by moodtobestewed *
You might try finding the California code that deals with this. I’d imagine if you took the DMV booklet into court as evidence the judge would have a good laugh at your expense, but the laws themselves may address it more clearly (eh, probably not).*

I think I’ve found the relevant code itself, and you’re right - it’s somewhat obfuscatory. First off, they have an interesting use of the word “highway” that can be confusing until you check their definition. Basically, a highway is any public road.

This stuff is governed by Section 22100 of Division 11, Chapter 6 of the California Vehicle Code. The two exceptions listed talk about U-turns and the right of local authorities to add laws of their own.

Subsection (a) deals with Right Turns.

(a) Right Turns. Both the approach for a right-hand turn and a right-hand turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except:

(1) Upon a highway having three marked lanes for traffic moving in one direction which terminates at an intersecting highway accommodating traffic in both directions, the driver of a vehicle in the middle lane may turn right into any lane lawfully available to traffic moving in that direction upon the roadway being entered.

(2) When a right-hand turn is made from a one-way highway at an intersection, a driver shall approach the turn as provided in subdivision (a) and shall complete the turn in any lane lawfully available to traffic moving in that direction upon the roadway being entered.

(3) Upon a highway having an additional lane or lanes marked for a right turn by appropriate signs or markings, the driver of a vehicle may turn right from any lane designated and marked for that turning movement.

This strikes me as a bit vague. The come right out and say, in some cases, that you can enter any old lane that you choose. Since they don’t say this in general, but instead admonish you to stay as close to the right as you can, I suppose it could be inferred that you must finish in the right-most lane (in general).

I agree with you, though, moodtobestewed; I don’t turn left when there’s somebody turning right into where I’m going at the same time. Even if it is legal, it’s asking for a fender-bender, eventually.

[bernse]

*Originally posted by Phobos *
**nah…I’d say that the problem is that there are MORE drivers. The overcrowding is bringing out the worst in people (and statistically…the increased number of drivers driving increases the chances of accidents and dumb-moves occurring/being observed) **

Sounds reasonable by itself. However, the city I live in (Approx 40K people) is not exactly congested by anymeans…yet. During our “rush-hour” you can easily commute from one end to the other in the absolute most 15mins. I notice the signalling thing even on the higway, failing to signal when passing. Crowding isn’t the problem there. IMHO its sheer laziness and/or stupidity. These dolts just don’t care.

(rant on)
Personally, I think the fines for a “faliure to signal” should be significant and enforced. That must be the most basic rule of driving, and if these induhvidules fail to observe that law, what other laws are they breaking?
(rant mode off)

[Barbarian]

*Originally posted by bernse *
**I know the last one isn’t illegal, but why don’t cops enforce these simple laws? Is there anything the average Joe can do to make them? Or is this only a big problem where I live?

**

Hee hee. When was the last time you saw a cop obeying any traffic laws? I’ve driven for significant amounts of time in Montreal, South Carolina, Seattle, Toronto, and Vancouver, and never in any of those places have I seen squad cars even so much as indicate.

Matter of fact last year I was nearly run down by an officer driving through a stop sign. When I screamed verbal abuse at him he told me that I should watch my foul language. I told him that my language would be much worse had he actually hit me…

And if anybody is interested, don’t drive in Vancouver, British Columbia, if you can help it. The locals think up to 5 cars are allowed to turn left after the light turns red – across up to 3 lanes of traffic. <shudder>.

We also have a significant number (I’ve heard Insurance company estimates of 1 to 4%) of drivers still on the road who either never lawfully received a license or who have lost it for whatever reason.

A high profile court case currently making the rounds involves a 25 year old man who has no license. He borrowed a friend’s Porsche Boxster to go drag-racing through residential streets at about 200 kmh (uhhh about 120 mph for you Americans) against a couple other cars. He struck and killed a pedestrian. Then took off (as is becoming exceedingly common. At least one occurence per month in a region with less than 2 million people.

[TinCanMan]

One of my biggest driving peeves is when you pull up to a busy intersection, you get an advanced green for left turns and some pedestrian decides to cross on the advanced green. Not being ‘allowed’ to run over pedestrians you have to sit and wait for them and by that tiome the left turn signal is gone and you’re stuck in the intersection. There is a reason the pedestrian signal says “don’t walk” while there is a left turn signal. Grrr.

[bernse]

I will ressurect this thread once more.

Today on the way to work traffic stopped on a two way residential road to let a pedistrian cross the street (a little boy presumably going to the school near me). Some retard behind didn’t want to wait, so he pulled into the right shoulder and floored it. I cringed at the inevitable outcome but the idiot missed the child by about 4-5 ft. All I can say is I hope someone got his plate #.

[Tretiak]

First of all I want to add my frustration to the non-turn signalling and to the pedestrain who crosses on an arrow.

One peve I have become more aware of is folks rip-tearing through parking lots. Supermarkets, shopping malls, anywhwere they treat it like it is any other road. This is especially dangerous, because a) many folks are backing out; b) it is often obstructed; c) it is usually very tight and croded in a parking lot; d) there are pedestrains coming from all places.

Let’s all admit it though, that we all do something or other once in a while theat is stupid. Then you have to do the old hand up, duck your head slightly “i’m sorry I did’t mean it, don’t hate me” gesture. Then two minutes later we are cursing the bad drivers all over again.

[BlinkingDuck]

I have lived for an extended time in three different areas different from where I grew up – Wyoming, South Georgia and Minneapolis. It is strange how a large part of drivers have the same weird, irritating style.
In Wyoming, I almost got into 2 accidents. It appears that the car having the ‘drainage dip’ is supposed to yield. Being on the right has nothing to do with it. After the second very-near collision, I was forcibly told this. I responded by asking where this law was written down. I needed to abide by this rule or I would have been in an accident for sure.
In Minneapolis, people will not enter the intersection when turning left. They stay sitting until the on coming traffic is clear and then enter the intersection and turn. Makes a real pain because I am used to the informal rule that 2 cars turn left when the light turns yellow. Also, they have 'red left-turn arrows ’ up here. What the hell is that? If you can turn, turn! Here you have to sit and wait for the light to cycle – or run it.
South Georgia was the worse. The two very dangerous trends were slamming on the brake for no apparent reason – coming to a complete stop even when no other cars around, and turning left from the right hand turn lane. This area I personally saw 18 accidents in 15 months! (yup, I counted). ( I also think that there was attempts to intentionally cause accidents)

Any other regional driving irritations out there?

[manhattan]

Well, a GQ tangent on turn laws notwithstanding, this is really more of a “share your stories” kind of thread.

Off to MPSIMS.