# Driving in HOV lanes
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 21, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354 "2022-07-21T23:31:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/21 "2022-07-23T14:45:35Z")
Well, this thread took an interesting turn!
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/22 "2022-07-23T14:56:59Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> I think you should let faster traffic pass you on the left. If the HOV lane is the leftmost lane, then move over and let them pass.
Exactly this, assuming you can move out of the HOV lane. I don’t know why some people think they’ve been named a special speed limit deputy sheriff to actively prevent others from speeding. Let others get around you.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/23 "2022-07-23T15:40:46Z")
Back to the OP.
IN AZ the HOV lanes are limited hours (something like 6-9 am and 3-6 pm. I never memorize it, I just read it 🙂 ) and the rest of the time anyone can use it.
But unlike CA and other places, you can get in and out at will. So I would move over for a faster car, even if I’m 10 over already.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/24 "2022-07-23T15:44:54Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Back to the OP.
>
> IN AZ the HOV lanes are limited hours (something like 6-9 am and 3-6 pm. I never memorize it, I just read it 🙂 ) and the rest of the time anyone can use it.
>
> But unlike CA and other places, **you can get in and out at will.** So I would move over for a faster car, even if I’m 10 over already. -
At least for the SF Bay Area, it’s the same. Though when the rest of traffic is a parking lot, moving over is simply not an option.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/25 "2022-07-23T15:50:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> Though when the rest of traffic is a parking lot, moving over is simply not an option.
And in that case, Speedy McSpeederson behind is just going to have to suck it up. I’m not going any faster. And I’ll just catch up with the guy in front of me, and now it isn’t my fault anymore. 🙂
Though in real life, if traffic was that backed up in the regular lanes, the HOV aren’t going to be that much faster.
Fun fact: In Chicago, there are dedicated separate lanes, with a barrier, for rush hour traffic. They go one way in the morning, and the other in the evening. (I have always wondered what changeover is like.) One time I was going into the city, and my non-HOV lane were solid, the HOV lanes were solid, AND the northbound lanes were solid. Quite impressive.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/26 "2022-07-23T15:56:01Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Though in real life, if traffic was that backed up in the regular lanes, the HOV aren’t going to be that much faster. -
It’s been 8-9 years since I last drove out there but at the time, HOV lanes moved at the limit while the other lanes were stopped.
I have no idea if vehicle occupancy patterns have changed enough to make a difference.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/27 "2022-07-23T16:02:41Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> But unlike CA and other places, you can get in and out at will.
I’m unfamiliar with HOV lanes, and how they’re supposed to work and what the point of them is, so I looked them up, and Wikipedia tells me that
> [@](#):
>
> The traffic speed differential between HOV and general-purpose lanes creates a potentially dangerous situation if the HOV lanes are not separated by a barrier. A [Texas Transportation Institute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Transportation_Institute) study found that HOV lanes lacking barrier separations caused a 50% increase in injury crashes.[[34]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-occupancy_vehicle_lane#cite_note-34)
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/28 "2022-07-23T16:11:51Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> I’m unfamiliar with HOV lanes, and how they’re supposed to work and what the point of them is, so I looked them up, and Wikipedia tells me that
They’re supposed to reward people for giving a ride to someone else, and thereby removing a car from the freeway. Your reward is (theoretically) moving faster and not getting stuck in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic.
Sometimes these lanes are completely separated. They are like mini freeways of their own, with even more limited access. Like, you can only enter or leave them from a few spots. That means they work best for long commutes.
Then there are the trust-based restrictions. The lanes are not physically separated, but they are double-lined, and by law (but not by physics) you can’t cross in and out at will, only in designated zones (dashed lines).
The third, of which AZ uses, are single-lined lanes that are designated 2+ (and I have seen people pulled over, so they do enforce it) but you can enter and leave them whenever. You get the benefit of rapidness but with the ability to use any exit (IF you can get over five lanes of stop and go traffic in time, that is).
I don’t believe the incidence of accidents is greater (no stats to back that up, just going by the number of accidents blocking the HOV/left lane vs the other 3-4 lanes that I’ve seen). People should still pay attention. And of course they don’t.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/29 "2022-07-23T16:14:24Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> They’re supposed to reward people for giving a ride to someone else, and thereby removing a car from the freeway. Your reward is (theoretically) moving faster and not getting stuck in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic.
Yes, that’s what I gather; but it wasn’t/isn’t at all obvious to me why a lane full of cars with more than one person in them would be moving faster than a lane that contained driver-only vehicles.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/30 "2022-07-23T16:20:12Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Yes, that’s what I gather; but it wasn’t/isn’t at all obvious to me why a lane full of cars with more than one person in them would be moving faster than a lane that contained driver-only vehicles.
In theory 🙂 people being what they are, there won’t be that many people that qualify for HOV status. Even with the benefit of speedy travel, pelple still want to drive by themselves.
In areas where more people take advantage of HOV, either they make two lanes HOV, or the HOV don’t go much faster.
In Phoenix the balance is pretty good. Usually the HOV is going 10-20 mph faster, but the main lanes have normal ebb and flow, so you can get over if you need.
Typical Phoenix freeway (NOT at rush hour).The far left is the single-solid-lined HOV lane.
https://www.google.com/maps/embed?pb=%213m2%212sen%214v0%216m8%211m7%211sF9rLw2kpo-KwQDvoOf-neA%212m2%211d33.4618126%212d-112.0902109%213f263.73%214f8.573%215f0.75
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/31 "2022-07-23T16:24:32Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> In theory 🙂 people being what they are, there won’t be that many people that qualify for HOV status. Even with the benefit of speedy travel, pelple still want to drive by themselves. -
Also, carpooling really only works if the two(or more) workers live near enough to make it practical. Also, what do you do if either one needs to leave work early or stay late?
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### Author:  [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/32 "2022-07-23T17:17:49Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Fun fact: In Chicago, there are dedicated separate lanes, with a barrier, for rush hour traffic. They go one way in the morning, and the other in the evening. (I have always wondered what changeover is like.)
We have reversible lanes here in South Florida, although they are pay-to-use “express lanes.” I’ve seen the changeover. There are barriers that can be raised or lowered at both entrances. For the changeover, they lower the barrier on the previously used side, and have a vehicle (I forget if it’s highway patrol or Department of Transportation) drive the length of it to verify that there are no more vehicles in transit. After that, they can open the new direction’s barrier.
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### Author:  [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/33 "2022-07-23T17:22:04Z")
You don’t have to ride with the same person in the morning and evening commutes. In the DC area, people stand in slug lines to find people going to their destination.
> **[Slug-Lines.com - Slugging and Slug Lines Information For Washington DC](http://www.slug-lines.com/)**
>
> Slug-Lines.com contains slug lines and slugging information for Washington, DC and Northern Virginia. Slugging and sluglines are a unique form of FREE commuting often called Casual Carpooling or Instant Carpooling.
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### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/34 "2022-07-23T17:45:36Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> The traffic speed differential between HOV and general-purpose lanes creates a potentially dangerous situation if the HOV lanes are not separated by a barrier
This I completely believe.
The HOV lanes on the freeway I commute on are only separated from the rest of traffic by a double white line. People will move into the HOV lane across the double white line, and when the speed differential between the HOV and normal travel lane is large, this can be incredibly dangerous.
Worst case is traffic at a near standstill, and the HOV lane at 60+, and then somebody suddenly moves into the HOV lane. I’ve seen drivers in the HOV lane have to make full panic stops to avoid an accident, and I saw the aftermath of one accident that looked to be caused by somebody moving into the HOV lane and getting rear ended.
My biggest problem is that I never see enforcement of people abusing the HOV lane. The HOV lanes here are combined toll/HOV, so free for 3+ (and motorcycles) otherwise there is automated toll collection. I see people move out of the HOV lane to avoid the toll cameras, and then move back in. I see people just use it as a passing lane—move into it, pass a few cars, and then get out again quickly.
Toll evasion is a $250 fine, and there has been talk of special enforcement officers since at least 2016, but I’ve never seen it. I regularly see speed traps on the same stretch of road. All it would take is one police car driving in the HOV lane during rush hour to catch multiple cars evading tolls every day.
Each toll stop should have an additional camera that points up the road to catch those people who move out at the last second. It would probably pay for itself in a few weeks, or better yet, never pay for itself, but stop the dangerous behavior.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/35 "2022-07-23T20:43:13Z")
In Boston, it’s called a zipper lane, the Jersey barriers are moved one lane over between rush hours by a machine like this:
[Road Zipper Moving Road Barrier - YouTube](https://youtu.be/-MeQnStAH0U)
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/36 "2022-07-24T02:47:19Z")
In the San Francisco Bay Area I see HOV lane enforcement regularly.
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/37 "2022-07-24T13:16:46Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#):
>
> In Boston, it’s called a zipper lane,
That’s south of city. North of the city it’s a standard permanent HOV lane. And the zipper lane being what it is, you have no access to passing or exits.
Since there are zipper lanes on both sides of the median it also becomes the HOV lane for southbound traffic in the afternoon. There’s no northern HOV lane for northbound afternoon traffic, which is a shame for those of us who want to head out for skiing on Friday afternoon.
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### Author:  [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/38 "2022-07-24T13:23:47Z")
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> Worst case is traffic at a near standstill, and the HOV lane at 60+, and then somebody suddenly moves into the HOV lane. I’ve seen drivers in the HOV lane have to make full panic stops to avoid an accident, and I saw the aftermath of one accident that looked to be caused by somebody moving into the HOV lane and getting rear ended.
This happened to me on I-66, the speed limit was 65 and HOV was moving at that speed, the other lanes were all about 35. A driver pulled in front of me into the HOV lane, no signal, and didn’t accelerate. I don’t know if she didn’t see me or didn’t even look, but she pulled out right in front of me. I had to brake and swerve onto the shoulder. I still think about that incident.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/39 "2022-07-24T13:36:43Z")
Ok, I didn’t know if the zipper lane was HOV or just for more traffic flow in each direction. I just thought the video was cool. And the one north of Boston is one exit/entrance as well - and sadly dumps you into a terrible merge on the lower deck. It’s really fun if you’re trying to get to the airport - you’ve got about a mile to move over 4-5 lanes of traffic.
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-in-hov-lanes/968354/40 "2022-07-24T14:37:50Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#):
>
> It’s really fun if you’re trying to get to the airport - you’ve got about a mile to move over 4-5 lanes of traffic.
To a true Boston driver, that’s a simple maneuver. You can do that in your sleep, and probably many do. 😉
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