I’m sure it isn’t simple, but UK managed to get rid of them all (I believe) so the US should be able to. Can’t accident victims make a group suit against the federal government for allowing them to remain in existance, or something. Wishful thinking I am sure. Of course I don’t know that they are dangerous, I only know that the few I have encountered feel extremely dangerous. So maybe there really are better ways to use money to save lives.
I realize there is a sizable faction of people who feel frustration over not being able to go as fast as they want, and deal with that frustration with varying degrees of appropriateness. To rant about the situation as though it is mostly the fault of the slower, older and/or more cautious drivers and to blame them for resultant accidents caused by recklessness on the part of the illegally fast drivers, strikes me as similar to telling the victims of domestic violence that they “provoked” the attacker through some irritating behavior. In both cases it is the reckless or violent person that is at fault. Period.
I’ll concede that because of bad road conditions and weather I committed a minor breach of driving etiquette. The person who passed me had been driving in the left lane all along, another breach. For that person to have honked or flashed brights would have been one thing - to pass and then commit an act risking a serious accident was not excusable.
I am a little more sensitive about these dolts than some people. For instance, last year there was the lead-foot who was following me too closely on a two-lane no-passing stretch of county road in a heavy pickup (I was driving the speed limit). When I signaled and slowed to make a left turn, he rammed the back corner of my vehicle and pushed me at an angle into a ditch. I was driving the same SUV mentioned earlier - you know, the one that’s supposed to roll over and kill me. Instead, it stayed upright, saving me from possible serious injury. My earlier reference to the idiocy of cutting people off while driving a much smaller vehicle was intended as a comment about drivers in general who challenge much larger vehicles, including fools who play around with semis.
This morning I was behind another driver who dawdled on his way up to a traffic light - a light that takes a long time to change. I was close to being late for a 7:30 a.m. conference and I wanted to make that light, but I didn’t honk, wave my fists or speed up and try to veer around in front of him at the last minute, risking a crash. It cost me about 90 seconds of commute time when the light turned red.
I can live with that.
Jackmannii I agree totally that the other driver did a worse thing by far than you did, also your tailgating event was just awful, and no fault of yours at all. And agreed the person who undertook you was a prize asshole, and if someone had come up to you and flashed you, you would have moved over. Unfortunately there is a very large number of people who don’t move over, and who drive always in their preferred lane. Such people are according to the OP’s link, and to my own and others heres experience, more dangerous than the people who drive maybe faster than the speed limit, but always within the safety margin offered by the road conditions, always keeping at least two seconds between them and the car in front. It is simply a call to the Police to stop not only those driving too fast for the conditions, but also those driving dangerously whilst at an otherwise safe speed. I don’t feel you were driving particularly dangerously, but if the car that undertook you was an unmarked police vehicle, and instead of cutting you up stopped you and warned you that you should move over when approached by a faster vehicle, that would be OK. If they did it to some of the dozy idiots who live in the left or second left lane, whilst all other lanes are clear, then maybe they would start to learn driving etiquette. I don’t know, perhaps there are people out there who genuinely don’t know that it is a good idea to move to the right lane whenever possible, this sort of thing would educate them.
Jackmanni nobody said you aren’t a decent, patient driver, almost all of the time. It is just your attitude concerning driving in the right lane that is wrong.
I do not tailgate, blow my horn or make hand signals, when someone is blocking the left lane. I do pass on the right, but stay in it after passing the knucklehead, because that is where I am supposed to be.
When in Italy, I promised myself that I was going to honk like they were doing at least once. I had to cheat, because they stick firmly to the rule of the lanes.
It’s these ‘minor breaches of etiquette’ that cause accidents. You weren’t following the rules of the road. You were a hazard to other drivers.
I think the State of Oklahoma driver’s manual lays down a few simple rules which, if followed, would make driving safer and more pleasurable for everyone.
Or is there some rule that I missed that says that if you’re indignant enough, these rules don’t apply to you?
Balls, Mr. Visible, for all the reasons mentioned previously.
Here’s a great idea for you, though. Print off this thread and carry a copy in your wallet. The next time you are speeding and are pulled over, or get in a wreck because you were overanxious to cut around someone or “teach them a lesson”, hand a copy of the thread to the police officer or to the judge hearing your case.
I’m sure they will be most sympathetic, even if they’re not from Oklahoma. 
Let me share a story that happened a few weeks ago. I was driving on a two lane highway. At intervals, particularly when climbing hills, a third lane was added in a particular direction for slower traffic to enter, allowing faster traffic to pass. At the time, I was driving one of these stretches of the highway–two lanes were going in my direction, one lane of oncoming traffic. Immediately before every one of these stretches was a sign stating “Keep Right EXCEPT to Pass”.
So anyway, I’m driving down the highway in the right lane, as I should be. I notice that a couple hundred yards ahead of me is a car cruising in the left lane. As I approach, I keep my eye on the car, wondering what he’ll do–Will he slide in to the right lane as I approach, allowing me to pass on the left? No. What happens is that, as soon as I begin the approach to pass him, he begins changing over in to my lane, furthermore, without bothering to use his signal. I blare my horn, he gets back over into the left lane, and I speed past him as fast as I can (not as an act of aggression, but rather because it was in my best interest to overtake him as quickly as possible and put as much distance between us as possible, since I have no idea what to expect out of this driver).
This was not the first time such a thing has happened to me, in fact, his behavior was not entirely unexpected. There have been many times I have passed a car on the right (because he wouldn’t get out of the left lane), only to have the driver attempt to enter my lane as I pass. I don’t know whether to attribute this behavior to aggression or simple stupidity, nevertheless, I have come to realize that I must always anticipate this behavior whenever I am in such a situation.
Anyway, with all due respect, my point, Jackmannii, is this. While I’m not nearly stupid enough to do what that driver did to you, and I’m sure you’re not nearly stupid enough to do what this driver did to me, what I’m not sure you’re aware of is the uncertainty you’re causing other drivers in this situation. When I’m driving, I am constantly observing the other drivers in my vicinity, trying to anticipate what they’ll do. This car that I’m gonna pass is stuck behind a tractor-trailer–I better keep my eye on him, 'cause there’s a decent chance he’s gonna cut in front of me to get around that truck. That driver’s in an exit only lane, but they’re hitting their brake erratically–they’re not giving any turn signal, but maybe I ought to get over in the next lane, in case they want to get back on the highway, rather than take the exit.
However, if I see a driver just cruising in the left lane, I’m powerless. To all appearances, at any rate, it’s an inattentative driver, and damn near impossible to predict their behavior. That can be dangerous. Should I get in the left lane, come up and behind them, and hope they’ll get over? Doesn’t always work. Should I pass them on the right? Maybe it’ll go smoothly, but then again, the behavior I mentioned above may happen instead. Suddenly I’m thrust into a position of uncertainty, and that makes me anxious.
You put that other driver into a position of uncertainty and…and…well, that’s no excuse at all for what he did. But my humble suggestion would be to make all reasonable attempts to drive in a manner that doesn’t leave others unsure of what to expect from you.
As I thought I said, the I-40/I-25 interchange was built in the 1960s. So for nearly 40 years that was the way it was. And yes, it was a major project. Some very high percentage–at least a high majority–of the traffic on the interstate and through the Big I is local commuter traffic, not semis and travelers.
They pulled it off in less than two years. Fastest completion of a rebuild of a major interchange ever. How? Precast pieces for the flyovers, working every single night, bonuses and penalties for the time taken, good weather in this part of the country causing very few delays due to weather (just try it in the Northeast), lots of cooperation from people in the city, and so on.
I don’t think it’ll be beaten any time soon.
You know, I haven’t said anything about the way that I drive. You’re making a whole lot of assumptions there.
However I do drive, though, it doesn’t change the fact that, by traveling in the left lane, you’re doing something that’s most likely illegal, and certainly rude, and has a good chance of causing accidents. Why in the world would you defend that behavior, instead of letting what you’ve learned in this discussion change your driving patterns so that you, and the people around you, will be safer?
Sorry, I’m not getting your point. I had responded to Bippy, who suggested that engineers be held legally liable for poor design. I’m not familiar with your specific example, but there are many old freeways in California that were probably state-of-the-art at the time, but are not up to today’s standards. It’s most likely impractical to rebuild many of them. And I don’t see how it would be productive to track down engineers who designed them in the 40’s or 50’s (if they’re even still alive) and punish them for failing to conform to today’s standards, 50 or 60 years after the fact.
I would like to point out:
[ul][li] That Jackmanni was driving in the left lane can be assumed as a fact.[/li][li] That another driver overtook Jackmanni and passed him using the right lane can reasonably be believed.[/li][li] That the road was rough can also be reasonably believed, but how rough is open to question.[/li][li] That the other driver cut Jackmanni off dangerously assumes that Jackmanni is being completely objective.[/ul][/li]10-4
I suppose I really should have responded to Bippy. Sorry, it was late.
Anyway, I was agreeing with you. As I said, the Big I was built using the common standards and ideas of the day, which included those left lane changes. I guess we were pretty lucky here in Albuquerque, that such a rebuild could go off so easily. Anyway, my point is that it is possible to do rebuilds, but expensive, difficult, and probably highly dependent on conditions.
Sorry that I wasn’t clear in my post you referred too, I meant that the legislative authorities that are in position to change the outdated dangerous road systems should be held responsible and liable for accidents that occur on them, if they do not make reasonable actions towards fixing the problems. I certainly would not consider liability of those originally making the designs, unless it can be shown that it was known at the time that the design was dangerous, but it was used in preference to the safer design in order to save money.
Cheers, Bippy
Remembering this thread, I was more observant than usual on my weekend trip to San Francisco form Santa Clara. Away from San Francisco trafic was light, and driving conditions were perfect. I passed four instances where drivers driving further left than necessary had caused bunching of between about 4 and 8 vehicles trying to overtake them. The drivers in the front missplaced cars were
1 a woman about mid thirties who was combing her hair whilst driving.
2 a man about 20.
3 a man about 30.
4 a man about 50.
no trend in vehicle type, and only the first was obviously not concentrating on their driving.
The right most lanes were more damaged than the left lanes (due to more heavy vehicle usage) but not dangerously so. During the same journey I observed one instance of dangerous fast driving where someone wove lanes coming far too close to cars in font, and causing the cars behind to break in order to re-establish safe distance from the car infront. The CHP seem to do a reasonable job in stoping and booking the fast dangerous drivers.
But there is a finite amount of money available for roads. To do what you suggest, Caltrans would have to (and this is just off the top of my head) rebuild all of the 101 Freeway though San Francisco, rebuilt the Golden Gate Bridge and the West span of the Bay Bridge, rebuild the entire Pasadena Freeway and large portions of the 5 Freeway through Los Angeles, etc., etc., at a cost of probably billions of dollars, all of which would be money taken away from new projects that are needed. Not to mention that these highways have historic value. We could build a new superhighway through the heart of San Francisco, but not without completely changing the character of the city and most likely doing irreparable damage.
Can’t dissagree with you there blowero. I just wish scary road sections like the exit to Treasure Island when going North on the Bay Bridge could get fixed. In many cases early road sign warnings, and early trafic segregation would be sufficient without a full rebuild. But this is all just whishful thinking.
O.K., fair enough. You make a good point.
I always drive in the left lane unless I’m overtaking, then I drive in the right lane.
So do I, actually. It’d be illegal to do otherwise - at least on freeways.
So they have freeways in Australia now?