# Driving Tax vs. Gas Tax?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 18, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335 "2011-05-18T15:50:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Profound\_Gibberish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profound_Gibberish)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/1 "2011-05-18T15:50:14Z")
A little overview here: [http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/18/news/economy/gas\_tax\_drivers/index.htm?hpt=Sbin](http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/18/news/economy/gas_tax_drivers/index.htm?hpt=Sbin)
This looks like the coming thing. Hybrids will ultimately make fuel consumption more variable which will then affect revenues. It makes more sense to be taxed for the damage your vehicle does to the road rather than a blanket tax that penalizes everyone the same.
However, I really don’t see the gas tax going away either. . .
Any thoughs?
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### Author:  [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/2 "2011-05-18T16:15:23Z")
I think a driving tax is a really stupid idea. The gas tax is such an easy, simple way to collect taxes. While it is not a perfect representation of the amount people drive, it is close, and has the added benifit of encouraging people to drive less, and drive more efficient vehicles. If the gas tax is not raising enough money, then raise the tax, don’t start a new tax.
It would be very expensive to have to implement a way to verify the mileage and collect a tax on every vehicle in the country.
I am going to be really upset if the driving tax on my 80mpg scooter is the same as on a Hummer, since my scooter clearly has less of an impact on both the road and traffic.
I think the only reason this idea is being suggested is that no politition wants to suggest raising the gas tax with gas prices as high as they are.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/3 "2011-05-18T16:25:40Z")
If there is an incentive to reduce energy consumption, but not lose the revenue from it, perhaps the topic should be addressed on a more fundamental issue.
Why not apply a tax surcharge based on fleet MPG numbers from the manufacturer. It would be an incentive of vehicle manufacturers to lift their game and increase their fleet MPG numbers, or their potential customer will be slugged with a higher tax rate because they bought a poor mileage vehicle. The customers would have a tax incentive to shop elsewhere. In time (faster with some manufacturers than others), poor mileage vehicles will be removed from use and replaced with higher mileage vehicles. Then start hitting every with a driving tax.
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/4 "2011-05-18T16:52:50Z")
> [@Duckster](#):
>
> Why not apply a tax surcharge based on fleet MPG numbers from the manufacturer.
Sounds similar to [CAFE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy), which we already have.
And it doesn’t work well because it doesn’t tax the _use_ of the car. In fact, there is some evidence that it has the opposite of the intended effect - [fuel-efficient cars cause an _increase_ in fuel usage](http://green.autoblog.com/2011/03/09/do-drivers-with-green-cars-put-on-more-miles/) because people end up driving more.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/5 "2011-05-18T16:59:51Z")
Since the OP is asking for opinions, this is better suited to IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/6 "2011-05-18T17:09:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Adding GPS technology enables a whole other level of pricing. Motorists could be charged different rates for travel on different roads during different times of the day. This is a form of congestion pricing, a concept that’s generally seen as an effective tool in reducing traffic jams.
Privacy concerns aside, does anybody seriously think the government has the resources to implement such a system, and then collect and analyze the data from every single vehicle in the country? The cost would probably exceed the tax. The whole idea sounds like a ridiculous non-starter to me.
Plus, if anyone truly thinks that the current gas tax would be eliminated if this new tax were to actually be implemented, I have a bridge here that I could let you have real cheap.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/7 "2011-05-18T18:07:11Z")
The gas tax drastically underfunds the infrastructure upkeep it was intended to pay for. That circumstance will get worse as fleet mpg get higher and worse yet if any significant fraction of the fleet goes electric.
Raising gas tax enough to impact funds hits those who cannot afford to drive anything except their old gas guzzling beater the hardest whereas those with more money can afford to ungrade to a more efficient car.
A mileage tax will be needed unless taxes from other sources are earmarked for road infrastructure and it is a fairer system. Motivate car choices at the point of purchase with a combination of tax credits and fees instead and transition gradually off of the gas tax and into a mileage tax world.
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### Author:  [@inkling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkling)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/8 "2011-05-18T19:31:29Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#):
>
> It would be very expensive to have to implement a way to verify the mileage and collect a tax on every vehicle in the country.
I disagree. The information is already being collected (at least, here in CA) when we go in for smog certifications. Many states have similar emissions checks, or do annual inspections, or something. Grease monkey looks at the odometer and enters the info into the computer, which already automatically sends the info to the DMV.
The easy part is making a system and process for collecting the milage tax. As part of the annual registration would seem like the logical time.
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### Author:  [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/9 "2011-05-18T19:53:41Z")
Because gasoline consumption is roughly correlated to road wear-and-tear, gasoline taxes make a hell of a lot of sense if the purpose is to levy taxes in proportion to road wear. Hybrids shift this equation, but they don’t break it entirely. Electric vehicles do, and some states are beginning to put a yearly driving tax on them in order to ensure that they pay their fair share.
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### Author:  [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/10 "2011-05-18T20:08:54Z")
> [@inkling](#):
>
> The easy part is making a system and process for collecting the milage tax.
Not easier than the system that is already in place.
Smog checks are only every other year. I have three motorcycles that don’t get smog checked at all. Am I going to have to start paying my registration in person so my vehicle’s mileage can be checked instead of sending a check in the mail?
How would you feel about having a goverment issued GPS in your car to track your driving habits? Cuz that is what is going to happen.
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### Author:  [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/11 "2011-05-18T20:23:28Z")
At the very least gas taxes need to be overhauled because they are a set amount per gallon, not a percentage of price. This means that they have not kept up with inflation.
> [@Wheelz](#):
>
> Privacy concerns aside, does anybody seriously think the government has the resources to implement such a system, and then collect and analyze the data from every single vehicle in the country? The cost would probably exceed the tax. The whole idea sounds like a ridiculous non-starter to me.
>
> Plus, if anyone truly thinks that the current gas tax would be eliminated if this new tax were to actually be implemented, I have a bridge here that I could let you have real cheap.
Companies (including mine) already do this for their fleets. It is not that complicated to log the data and have a program determine taxes.
> [@inkling](#):
>
> I disagree. The information is already being collected (at least, here in CA) when we go in for smog certifications. Many states have similar emissions checks, or do annual inspections, or something. Grease monkey looks at the odometer and enters the info into the computer, which already automatically sends the info to the DMV.
>
> The easy part is making a system and process for collecting the milage tax. As part of the annual registration would seem like the logical time.
The problem with that type of system is that it would assume all miles driven are in state. If I live in CA but work part of the year in NV, should I pay CA for the miles I drive in NV?
A GPS version is almost inevitable as vehicles become more efficient and more fuel options become available. If you own a Nissan Leaf, you do not pay for road upkeep right now. The question becomes how else will it be used. You could eliminate toll booths entirely, as well as parking meters. As mentioned above you could use differential pricing to reduce traffic congestion. Of course it may also mean automatic speeding tickets.
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/12 "2011-05-18T20:56:15Z")
You’d have to distinguish between farm and non-farm use. But in general, I like the idea. This is (err, could be) a _great_ enabler for the eventual existence of private, non-government roads on a wide scale.
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### Author:  [@littlespeedysuperbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/littlespeedysuperbike)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/13 "2011-05-18T21:02:53Z")
Wear on the road is usually assumed to be proportional to the cube of the axle load; so maybe a per-ton-cubed-per-mile tax would make more sense than a mileage tax?
My new Honda VFR800 gets 56 miles to the gallon on the highway. I would hate to get rid of the fuel-saving aspects of a gas tax; we pretty much already have because ours is so low.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/14 "2011-05-19T14:47:36Z")
The idea had been promoted by LaHood in '09 after it was advised by the [National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Finance Commission](http://financecommission.dot.gov/Documents/NSTIF_Commission_Final_Report_Advance%20Copy_Feb09.pdf) (pdf of the report) and Obama fairly quickly said it wasn’t going to happen. Since then pretty much every serious bipartisan look at the current road infrastructure situation and its current underfunded state and its certainty to become even more seriously underfunded in the future has concluded that a mileage fee makes more sense and that systems exist that can do so with full protection of privacy information - reporting only total miles as associated with individual vehicles. No other viable proposal to fund infrastructure has been floated.
If it comes it will will come from Congress and with the Executive branch at least offering its token opposition. And I have a hard time seeing Congress taking the heat needed to do it. Politically it is hard to do.
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### Author:  [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/15 "2011-05-19T15:19:48Z")
Haven’t seen this mentioned yet, so… (EDIT: Sorry, missed **vactrac** ’s observations on wear and vehicle weight) Road and bridge wear is much more due to the use of heavy trucks than of passenger cars, and the trucks don’t pay anywhere close to their share. If we wish to be fair about this, raise the price on diesel fuel so that heavy trucks can get closer to paying their fair share. This will, of course, raise the price of everything else that those trucks carry from A to B.
I don’t think anyone has yet in this thread thrown out numbers showing the costs of road maintenance, the increase in road durability necessitated by having heavy truck traffic and its associated cost, the amount of $$$ taken in from the assorted fuel and other motor vehicle taxes, and where previous years’ $$$ from this have been spent. I don’t have them at hand, but would like to see them. IIRC, CA used to raid any state gas tax revenue surpluses for the general fund.
Make the financial case before starting yet another tax that will, no doubt, be just as “temporary” as the income tax.
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### Author:  [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/16 "2011-05-20T01:09:12Z")
You DO realize this is not a either/or for our friends in DC, it will be BOTH.
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/17 "2011-05-21T12:43:51Z")
How tying yearly registration fees to the weight of the vehicle?
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/18 "2011-05-21T14:24:43Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#):
>
> I think the only reason this idea is being suggested is that no politition wants to suggest raising the gas tax with gas prices as high as they are.
There’s such a fine line between politition, pollution, and politician.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/19 "2011-05-21T21:01:58Z")
I would like to see the gas tax raised by a dollar a gallon at least. Maybe in increments to allow adjustments. Use the money to subsidize public transit.
Now, I drive under 4000 km a year and use public transit a lot, so you can see where I am coming from.
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-tax-vs-gas-tax/582335/20 "2011-05-23T01:25:18Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> I would like to see the gas tax raised by a dollar a gallon at least. Maybe in increments to allow adjustments. Use the money to subsidize public transit.
>
> Now, I drive under 4000 km a year and use public transit a lot, so you can see where I am coming from.
You’re selfish and want everyone to subsidize the transportation that you use?
I’d like to see gas tax raised by a dollar per gallon at least, and used to improve/repair the infrastructure for the people that actually pay that tax.
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