# Driving to work and I just heard that America is turning into Orwell’s 1984 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174 "2017-04-10T14:22:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/1 "2017-04-10T14:22:38Z")
So just on the radio on NPR there was an interview with a congress critter. Telling us that the missile strike on Syria was about peace in the region. Yes, **“War is Peace”**. Then locally a “Freedom” caucus Republican congressman was happy about trying to remove ACA again. As usual conservatives are making efforts to have people that are getting more freedom under ACA to have less. > **[How Obamacare's breaking the bonds of job lock | healthinsurance.org](https://www.healthinsurance.org/obamacare/how-obamacares-breaking-the-bonds-of-job-lock/)** > > No one has to be stuck in a dead-end job just to keep their health insurance. Thanks to the ACA, anyone can enroll in coverage through the health insurance marketplace within 60 days of losing health insurance coverage, even if they leave their job... Yes, **“Freedom is slavery”**. And then there was a report on how animal testing is distorting the ways to find cures for human diseases. With many researches acting as if the differences in Animal physiology can be ignored. So, yeah, also **“Ignorance is strength”** …. Just your literary rant of the day, please add other Orwellian items, just to tell others… While we still can… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/2 "2017-04-10T15:47:42Z")
As I remember, in _1984_ the TV’s had cameras so the gubbermint could monitor everyone’s activities … in reality it’s our computers that have this ability … the BIG difference is that all of us have the ability to video and record … a two-edged sword as it were … “big brother” is watching us AND we’re watching “big brother” … the so-called “little brother” effect … “Medicinal marijuana” … ya right … ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/3 "2017-04-10T15:54:15Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > \“Medicinal marijuana” … ya right … 😕 ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/4 "2017-04-10T16:02:56Z")
Marijuana isn’t prescription medicine until the FDA says it’s prescription medicine … ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/5 "2017-04-10T16:09:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Marijuana isn’t prescription medicine until the FDA says it’s prescription medicine … It can most certainly be medicinal. That’s what I was questioning. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/6 "2017-04-10T16:56:04Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > It can most certainly be medicinal. That’s what I was questioning. Of course it can … but is it any more medicinal than peppermint tea? The whole movement is just a cheap excuse to legalize pot … and I’m using it as an example of Orwellian Double Speak going back the other way … We the People are imposing our will on the gubbermint … and it’s catchy, lining up the terminal cancer patients … The scientific studies have _not_ been done to any great degree … but it’s just a plant, no more harmful than peppermint … just don’t toke and drive please … ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/7 "2017-04-10T17:11:54Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Of course it can … but is it any more medicinal than peppermint tea? Yes, considerably. My 87yo mother uses a salve for her sciatica and crushed vertebra, and when she feels a migraine coming on, 2-3 drops of CBD tincture under her tongue stops it in it’s tracks. > [@](#): > > \The scientific studies have _not_ been done to any great degree … but it’s just a plant, no more harmful than peppermint … just don’t toke and drive please … Hopefully, as it becomes more accepted studies and funds for studies will increase. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/8 "2017-04-10T17:26:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Just your literary rant of the day, please add other Orwellian items, just to tell others… While we still can… 🙂 Not Orwellian, but I first thought of [this](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Vietnam_War): > [@](#): > > **It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.** > > Attributed to an unnamed United States major, referring to the bombing of Ben Tre, South Vietnam; reported by AP correspondent Peter Arnett, “Major Describes Move”, New York Times (February 8, 1968), p. 14. > > Often misquoted in a variety of ways, notably: In order to save the village, we had to destroy it. or “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.” > > John McGuffin, Internment (1973), Anvil Books, page 26 (early misquote); Ralph Keyes, The Quote Verifier: Who Said What, Where, and When (2006), ISBN 978-0-312-34004-9. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/9 "2017-04-10T17:59:10Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Marijuana isn’t prescription medicine until the FDA says it’s prescription medicine … It’s not _really_ prescription medicine until Eli Lilly or Pfizer or Mylan secure an exclusive patent and then raise the price by 6,000% overnight. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/10 "2017-04-10T17:59:32Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Not Orwellian, but I first thought of [this](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Vietnam_War): > > > [@](#): > > > > **It became necessary to destroy the town to save it** … [snip] `Destroying is saving` … that fits the OP quite well I think … ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/11 "2017-04-10T18:11:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It’s not _really_ prescription medicine until Eli Lilly or Pfizer or Mylan secure an exclusive patent and then raise the price by 6,000% overnight. That’s a real concern. At least it’s recreational in the state that I live, so that _shouldn’t_ be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/12 "2017-04-10T18:13:01Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Of course it can … but is it any more medicinal than peppermint tea? > > The whole movement is just a cheap excuse to legalize pot … and I’m using it as an example of Orwellian Double Speak going back the other way … We the People are imposing our will on the gubbermint … and it’s catchy, lining up the terminal cancer patients … > > The scientific studies have _not_ been done to any great degree … but it’s just a plant, no more harmful than peppermint … just don’t toke and drive please … Actually, there have been studies that point to cannabis as having an effect against nausea (that is what refractory emesis means -if you think that is not important consider that there are patients that do get nausea because of a treatment and then other needed medications or food that is needed is not taken-) when a patient gets chemotherapy, and other issues: [Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwivzrqouprTAhUpwFQKHR4jAyoQFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.antoniocasella.eu%2Farchila%2FBenAmar_2006.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFenrnnZca4S16ZbpE29589nr7F6A&sig2=84bA3UaxPlHmnzbJXEJ8Kw&cad=rja) (PDF) > [@](#): > > The relaxation of the regulatory norms for therapeutic cannabis and the accomplishment of a greater number of controlled clinical trials make it possible to affirm that cannabinoids exhibit an interesting therapeutic potential as antiemetics, appetite stimulants in debilitating diseases (cancer and AIDS), analgesics, aswell as in the treatment of multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injuries, Tourette’s syndrome, epilepsy and glaucoma. Of course, more research is needed as even in those issues some studies are inconclusive and in issues like epilepsy marijuana is not looking to be effective. One point the study cited makes is that marijuana should be used mostly in support of other more understood medicines or as an option after other remedies are shown to not be very effective in controlling a condition. As usual, not all people react the same to a remedy but some do show very dramatic results as a recent video of a Parkinson’s patient showed: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zNT8Zo_sfwo/maxresdefault.jpg "Medical Marijuana and Parkinson's Part 3 of 3") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNT8Zo_sfwo) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/13 "2017-04-10T18:37:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And then there was a report on how animal testing is distorting the ways to find cures for human diseases. With many researches acting as if the differences in Animal physiology can be ignored. > > So, yeah, also **“Ignorance is strength”** …. Who are the “many researchers” ignoring differences in animal physiology? Or is the problem actually the news media and Google University graduates, who act as though a single small-scale study in mice proves that Substance X cures cancer? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/14 "2017-04-10T18:53:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Who are the “many researchers” ignoring differences in animal physiology? > > Or is the problem actually the news media and Google University graduates, who act as though a single small-scale study in mice proves that Substance X cures cancer? Well, here is the NPR report: > **[Drugs That Work In Mice Often Fail When Tried In People](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/10/522775456/drugs-that-work-in-mice-often-fail-when-tried-in-people)** > > Most potential new drugs don't work when tested in people. It's a major disappointment and it drives up the cost of developing new drugs. One big reason is the use of animals in medical research. > [@](#): > > I’m guided through the labyrinth by Joseph Garner, a behavioral scientist at the Stanford University Medical Center. We go into a windowless room stacked floor to ceiling with seemingly identical plastic cages full of mice. > > The philosophy behind mouse research has been to make everything as uniform as possible, so results from one facility would be the same as the identical experiment elsewhere. > > But despite extensive efforts to be consistent, this setup hides a huge amount of variation. Bedding may differ from one facility to the next. So might the diet. Mice respond strongly to individual human handlers. Mice also react differently depending on whether their cage is up near the fluorescent lights or hidden down in the shadows. > > Garner and colleagues tried to run identical experiments in six different mouse facilities, scattered throughout research centers in Europe. Even using genetically identical mice of the same age, the results varied all over the map. > [@](#): > > Preuss at Emory agrees that using animals as models of disease is a big reason that many results in biomedical research aren’t readily reproducible. “I think that we have means to resolve that, though.” > > How? “You have to think outside of the model box,” he says. Mice and rats aren’t simplified humans. Scientists should stop thinking they are. > > But Preuss says scientists can still learn a lot about biology and disease by studying animals — for example, by comparing how humans and other animals differ, or where they share common traits. Those can reveal a lot about biology without assuming that what’s true in a rat is likely true in a human. > > “Scientists need to break out of a culture that is hampering progress,” Preuss says. That’s tough to do right now, in a world where science funding is on the chopping block. \*\*Many scientists are reluctant to take a risk that could backfire. \*\*But the upside could benefit us all, in the form of a better understanding of disease, and effective new drugs. Looking at how medical research has taken a drubbing lately this could be one factor on why most of the examples from other posters (mostly from the right) that want to disparage the whole of science are coming from medical science. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/15 "2017-04-10T20:09:10Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > That’s a real concern. At least it’s recreational in the state that I live, so that _shouldn’t_ be a problem. “Good news is, weed’s legal! Bad news: a quarter bag’s gonna need an amortization schedule.” ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/16 "2017-04-10T20:24:37Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Good news is, weed’s legal! Bad news: a quarter bag’s gonna need an amortization schedule.” Actually, the shit grows like weeds … ask any Iowa corn farmer … ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/17 "2017-04-10T22:01:58Z")
We often hear Trump or his supporters say things that are obviously false and which they must know to be false, but nevertheless say with conviction. Members of the House Science Committee say things their own ten-year old children must ridicule them for. This reminds me of _doublethink_ [QUOTE=George Orwell] In other words it is necessary that he should have the mentality appropriate to a state of war. It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist. The splitting of the intelligence which the Party requires of its members, and which is more easily achieved in an atmosphere of war, is now almost universal, but the higher up the ranks one goes, the more marked it becomes. It is precisely in the Inner Party that war hysteria and hatred of the enemy are strongest. In his capacity as an administrator, it is often necessary for a member of the Inner Party to know that this or that item of war news is untruthful, and he may often be aware that the entire war is spurious and is either not happening or is being waged for purposes quite other than the declared ones: but such knowledge is easily neutralized by the technique of _doublethink_. Meanwhile no Inner Party member wavers for an instant in his mystical belief that the war is real, and that it is bound to end victoriously, with Oceania the undisputed master of the entire world. … But since in reality Big Brother is not omnipotent and the party is not infallible, there is need for an unwearying, moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment of facts. The keyword here is _blackwhite_. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to _believe_ that black is white, and more, to _know_ that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as _doublethink_. … _Doublethink_ means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the exercise of _doublethink_ he also satisfies himself that reality is not violated. The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt. _Doublethink_ lies at the very heart of Ingsoc, since the essential act of the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty. To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word _doublethink_ it is necessary to exercise _doublethink_. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth. Ultimately it is by means of _doublethink_ that the Party has been able – and may, for all we know, continue to be able for thousands of years – to arrest the course of history. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/driving-to-work-and-i-just-heard-that-america-is-turning-into-orwell-s-1984/784174/18 "2017-04-10T22:10:49Z")
The GWB era had this on lock: PATRIOT Act Clear Skies Initiative Healthy Forests Initiative No Child Left Behind Homeland Security, constantly referring America as “The Homeland” Coalition of the Willing Enhanced interrogation Extraordinary rendition Axis of Evil Operation Iraqi Freedom Kinetic action The Obama years saw mass surveillance turn into “bulk collection.” From what I’ve seen, Team Trump just lies as much as possible, adhering to the Russian “firehose of falsehoods” model. “Alternative facts” was an instant classic, though. One old one still in use, beside “collateral damage,” is framing American military action as inherently stabilizing a region. The bad guys destabilize the region, American and its allies stabilize it.