# Drones interfering with fire fighters? How can this be legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546 "2015-07-18T20:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/1 "2015-07-18T20:28:51Z")
You’ve probably read about the Cajon Pass fire already, which has burned up a bunch of cars on the freeway. (Hard to believe the people in those cars could escape a fast-moving fire by _running_) Anyway, all the news sources ( [example](http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/18/8998385/drones-delay-firefighters-fighting-california-wildfire) ) are talking about th aerial firefighting being disrupted by people (of the sort sometimes known as jackasses) flying their little drones in the area, the better to get a good look-see. How is this even possibly legal? Do we need new laws to forbid this? Don’t we have existing laws against interfering with police or fire fighters or other emergency responders? And if so, aren’t the existing laws sufficient to cover these kinds of cases? Or, in the specific circumstances of _aerial_ interference, is this something that only Federal law or the FAA can regulate? If that’s so, do we need new Federal laws here? Also: The linked article says the fire crews were delayed about a half-hour until they were able to locate the drone operators and tell them to knock it off. They can actually locate the operators? The article doesn’t mention if they cited the operators, or arrested them, or confiscated their equipment. (This thread might be Pit-worthy.) ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/2 "2015-07-18T20:33:43Z")
It isn’t legal. They just choose not to drag the operators off in handcuffs as it’s a mistake a reasonable person could make. I actually wonder if a lightweight drone is that big of a threat to a large aircraft. I doubt they have any more mass than a large bird, and aircraft don’t crash from single bird strikes generally. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/3 "2015-07-18T20:43:45Z")
it isn’t legal, since airspace can fall under [temporary flight restrictions.](http://www.nbaa.org/ops/airspace/alerts/notams/temporary-flight-restrictions.php) but that won’t stop man-children from playing with their new toys in places they shouldn’t be. > [@Habeed](#): > > I actually wonder if a lightweight drone is that big of a threat to a large aircraft. I doubt they have any more mass than a large bird, you do not want the rotor blades of a helicopter striking a hard object. and you definitely don’t want metal and plastic pieces going down the throat of a turbine. > [@](#): > > and aircraft don’t crash from single bird strikes generally. Why does the aircraft have to crash before it becomes a bad thing? I mean, if a bird can do [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/IAF_UH-60_after_birds_strike_outside.jpg) to a helicopter, I’d say causing thousands of dollars of equipment damage and/or injuring the occupants are good enough reasons to say “keep your damn toys out of areas they don’t belong.” hell, I run and race R/C vehicles, and I can’t stand these things. they’re purchased by idiot bros who have no idea (if they even care) how to operate them safely and appropriately. those of us who actually belong to an R/C organization/sanctioning body and take the time to secure approved places to run would be glad to see every single one of these inappropriately operated drones blasted out of the air. I giggled at a video I watched where some drone bro was flying around his (burning) neighbor’s house while the firefighters were working on putting it out. eventually one of the firefighters just turned a fire hose on the drone, and the idiot owner had the balls to insist the county should “compensate” him for the damage. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/4 "2015-07-18T20:44:04Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > I actually wonder if a lightweight drone is that big of a threat to a large aircraft. I doubt they have any more mass than a large bird, and aircraft don’t crash from single bird strikes generally. I think the article pointed out that a drone could damage a propeller or helicopter rotor. A damaged helicopter _might_ be able to touch down safely. But if you’re flying _over a raging wildfire,_ maybe not. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/5 "2015-07-18T20:46:01Z")
[California Penal Code 148.2](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=142-181) covers resisting or interfering with firefighters. It’s a misdemeanor. [quote] 148.2. Every person who willfully commits any of the following acts at the burning of a building or at any other time and place where any fireman or firemen or emergency rescue personnel are discharging or attempting to discharge an official duty, is guilty of a misdemeanor: [ol] [li] Resists or interferes with the lawful efforts of any fireman or firemen or emergency rescue personnel in the discharge or attempt to discharge an official duty.[/li] [li] Disobeys the lawful orders of any fireman or public officer.[/li] [li] Engages in any disorderly conduct which delays or prevents a fire from being timely extinguished.[/li] [li] Forbids or prevents others from assisting in extinguishing a fire or exhorts another person, as to whom he has no legal right or obligation to protect or control, from assisting in extinguishing a fire.[/ol][/li][/quote] I’d say #3 covers it. And #2 once they have been told to get their little drone the f— out of there! ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/6 "2015-07-18T20:49:38Z")
As I asked in the other thread, couldn’t they have been from the media, taping the dramatic footage of burning vehicles that everyone wanted to see? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/7 "2015-07-18T20:49:55Z")
In the specific circumstance of _aerial_ firefighting, does Federal aviation law [del]trump[/del] supersede any state law? Is that an area that only Congress or FAA can regulate? And if so, is there in fact Federal law or FAA regulation to cover this kind of activity? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/8 "2015-07-18T20:50:49Z")
Sounds like a good shotgun with a skeet scope and #6 magnum loads should be standard equipment on fire trucks. Not sure about air-to-air on the choppers, though. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/9 "2015-07-18T20:51:51Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > As I asked in the other thread, couldn’t they have been from the media, taping the dramatic footage of burning vehicles that everyone wanted to see? Just for reference: [Link to aforesaid other thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18528425&posted=1#post18528425) (In which I also posted a link to this thread at Post #10.) ETA: And anyway, is the media allowed to get in to do their reporting, when it interferes with the emergency activities? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/10 "2015-07-18T20:53:06Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > In the specific circumstance of _aerial_ firefighting, does Federal aviation law [del]trump[/del] supersede any state law? Is that an area that only Congress or FAA can regulate? > > And if so, is there in fact Federal law or FAA regulation to cover this kind of activity? here’s the relevant TFR for the area: [http://tfr.faa.gov/save\_pages/detail\_5\_7298.html](http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_5_7298.html) “No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).” > [@](#): > > ETA: And anyway, is the media allowed to get in to do their reporting, when it interferes with the emergency activities? typically the media will operate above the restriction, e.g. in this case the airspace is restricted from ground to 8,000 feet. They can fly above that, or outside of the restricted area. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/11 "2015-07-18T20:53:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Sounds like a good shotgun with a skeet scope and #6 magnum loads should be standard equipment on fire trucks. Not sure about air-to-air on the choppers, though. To be aimed at the drones, or the operators? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/12 "2015-07-18T20:57:15Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > To be aimed at the drones, or the operators? 😃 Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/13 "2015-07-18T20:59:04Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > here’s the relevant TFR for the area: > > [http://tfr.faa.gov/save\_pages/detail\_5\_7298.html](http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_5_7298.html) > > “No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).” > > typically the media will operate above the restriction, e.g. in this case the airspace is restricted from ground to 8,000 feet. They can fly above that, or outside of the restricted area. Whoa! Something you typed in your post didn’t show up, but I see it here in this edit box! I think you’re missing a QUOTE tag. Here’s the part of your post that isn’t showing up: (ETA: Ninja’d. I see **jz78817** has fixed this already.) > [@jz78817](#): > > typically the media will operate above the restriction, e.g. in this case the airspace is restricted from ground to 8,000 feet. They can fly above that, or outside of the restricted area. Anyway, good to see that FAA is almost on top if this by issuing a NOTAM, although it was a bit late (today instead of yesterday). But from now on, with this experience, they should know to issue a NOTAM like that _immediately_ whenever there’s a fire to be fought. And, fires being rather common, one might think there would be a blanket general rule like this, instead of having to issue a specific NOTAM for each fire. (Which I doubt that drone operators would see anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/14 "2015-07-18T21:08:59Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > To be aimed at the drones, or the operators? 😃 Now, now, we don’t want to go _completely_ Judge Dredd here. But securing the emergency zone could lead to some wonderfully expensive and satisfying aluminum rain. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/15 "2015-07-18T21:12:06Z")
Can the operator of a drone be charged as a pilot ( even though they have no license nor are actually in/on the flying machine ) when their drone flying machine breaks a FAA or Certain pertinent law/rule? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/16 "2015-07-18T21:42:21Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Now, now, we don’t want to go _completely_ Judge Dredd here. But securing the emergency zone could lead to some wonderfully expensive and satisfying aluminum rain. Robert Heinlein would have popped a cap in their asses, no question about it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/17 "2015-07-18T21:43:24Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Robert Heinlein would have popped a cap in their asses, no question about it. No, Bobbo would have written extensively about how he _should_ have etc. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/18 "2015-07-18T21:57:50Z")
Well then, maybe I confused him with Lazarus Long or somebody. (Yes, I know he said he patterned LL on “Doc” Smith.) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/19 "2015-07-18T22:03:41Z")
I think it should be legal and without consequence to fire anything that isn’t considered a firearm at drones. Or any other method of knocking them out of the air. Let em take their chances. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546/20 "2015-07-18T22:13:59Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think it should be legal and without consequence to fire anything that isn’t considered a firearm at drones. Or any other method of knocking them out of the air. > > Let em take their chances. If a drone is over your property or observing your private space, I don’t believe there are any consequences to… disabling it. IANAL etc. but I’d like to see the court case where some fan-boy tries to sue you for whacking his toy with a pool scoop, or whatever. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drones-interfering-with-fire-fighters-how-can-this-be-legal/725546.md?page=2)