# Drowning giraffes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 16, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687 "2001-02-16T03:40:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![May](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@May](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/May)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/1 "2001-02-16T03:40:06Z")
In the new Outside magazine (March 2001) we find out that in addition to apes, giraffes can’t swim either. Which makes sense. Plus the expert’s name was Fish. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/2 "2001-02-16T12:54:50Z")
Welcome to the SDMB. A link to the article is appreciated. It is [Is the camel the only animal that can’t swim? 10-Oct-2000](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcamelswim.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/3 "2001-02-16T16:00:37Z")
Not having seen the article, do they provide any evidence for that, or do they just assert it as a fact? I have seen the statement made that giraffes cannot swim, but wondered how that was tested, and have never seen any specific evidence cited. For apes, on the other hand, there is abundant observational evidence that they are unable to swim, as mentioned in the follow-up thread [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=41778), (which has the incredible distinction of containing my very first post on the SDMB. :D) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/4 "2001-02-16T16:22:47Z")
::: imagining a group of white-clad lab assistants, throwing a giraffe into a very deep swimming pool… one assistant, with clipboard and heavy glasses, taking notes with a stopwatch ::: ---
**Author:** ![May](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@May](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/May)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/5 "2001-02-16T18:21:30Z")
Sorry about the incomplete post. The article (“The Wild File” by Stephanie Gregory, March 2001 Outside) cites “Frank Fish, an expert on the enegetics of swimming at West Chester University.” “The reason for the giraffe’s inability to swim is painful self-evident: Like a keel without a hull, the long necked creature simply cannot stay upright in the water.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/6 "2001-02-16T22:37:27Z")
So does the article state that Mr. Fish actually observed a giraffe keeling over in water that was too deep to wade in? Or might he have just been speculating? Given the fact that in the other thread it was established that such unlikely critters as sloths, armadillos, moles, kangaroos, elephants, and even bats can swim, I’m not prepared to accept the proposition that giraffes can’t until someone actually tosses a few in the (very) deep end and records what happens (as Dex says, equipped with white lab coats and clipboards :D). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/7 "2001-02-17T01:27:52Z")
I hereby volunteer!! Someone provide me with a giraffe and a deep pool, and this particular chunk of ignorance shall be well and thoroughly fought! ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/8 "2001-02-17T02:16:44Z")
If you’re a giraffe, why would you need to learn how to swim? Just walk on the bottom and stick your head out. It may sound like I’m kidding, but how often would a giraffe in the wild encounter a situation where swimming would be a survival matter? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/9 "2001-02-17T02:43:02Z")
This link [Cheyenne Zoo](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.cmzoo.org/griaffeinfo.html+%22swimming+giraffe%22&hl=en) specifically says there are no known cases of giraffes swimming. Does that prove it? No. In support of giraffes being able to swim come this report[BBC](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.cmnh.org/fun/dinosaur-archive/2000Jun/msg00889.html+giraffes+swim&hl=en) The link says there is film of giraffes trying to cross a river, then turning around and coming back. It could have been as Arnold said, they might have been cheating by walking across the river. [This reply](http://www.cmnh.org/fun/dinosaur-archive/2000Jun/msg00884.html) to the previous link says there was a National Geographic article showing camels _wallowing about in the ocean._ Whatever that means. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/10 "2001-02-17T03:43:12Z")
Sorry. Can’t seem to make two links in one post. Something is screwy. Maybe because they come from the same general url. This site [BBC](http://www.cmnh.org/fun/dinosaur-archive/2000Jun/msg00889.html) would indicate that there is film of giraffes going into a flooded river and getting half way, then coming back. They, of course, could have been pulling an _Arnold_ and cheating by walking. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/11 "2001-02-17T13:44:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*If you’re a giraffe, why would you need to learn how to swim? Just walk on the bottom and stick your head out. It may sound like I’m kidding, but how often would a giraffe in the wild encounter a situation where swimming would be a survival matter? \*\* Well, the thing is, most mammals seem to manage to swim instinctively even if they haven’t encountered deep water before. Jill’s column established that camels can swim, even if they rarely need the ability. Likewise, I doubt that bats often paddle about for pleasure or out of necessity, yet in the other thread someone provided an observation of a bat swimming under duress. And I suspect that a dog that had never encountered deep water before would quite sucessfully and spontaneously dog-paddle if it fell off a boat. Swimming ability is a primitive trait. As long as a mammal (1) has positive buoyancy, (2) has limbs it can move to propel itself, and (3) has a structure that allows it to keep its head above water, it should be able to swim. The main question about giraffes is whether their unusual structure would cause them to fail on provision three. While one might easily _imagine_ this might be so, I am highly skeptical in the absence of actual observations. The inability of apes to swim is very puzzling indeed, since as I remarked in the other thread it seems to be more psychological than physical. > [@](#): > > _originally written by Smeghead_\*\* > I hereby volunteer!! Someone provide me with a giraffe and a deep pool, and this particular chunk of ignorance shall be well and thoroughly fought!\*\* I’m writing a grant to the National Science Foundation right now. Send me your c.v. and I’ll put you down as giraffe wrangler (and I presume you can document your previous experience in the field, of course? ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/12 "2001-02-18T07:40:04Z")
Well, I mainly deal with bacteria and cell cultures, but it’s not that much of a leap to giraffes… ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/13 "2001-02-18T18:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > Jill’s column established that camels can swim, even if they rarely need the ability. Likewise, I doubt that bats often paddle about for pleasure or out of necessity, yet in the other thread someone provided an observation of a bat swimming under duress. And I suspect that a dog that had never encountered deep water before would quite sucessfully and spontaneously dog-paddle if it fell off a boat. True, but here’s what I was thinking. When a bat falls into a river, it’s swim or drown, so it has to swim **out of necessity** as you said. A bat being a flying (and tiny) creature could often find itself in a situation where it might fall into water too deep for it to touch bottom. A dog, having short legs, could easily happen upon a body of water that would require it to swim (e.g. by falling in). On the other hand, a giraffe, even if it falls into Lake Victoria, would probably be close enough to shore that it could just walk out. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/14 "2001-02-18T19:01:16Z")
samclem, the link you provide says that a BBC crew, when filming a documentary (_Big Cat Diary_\*) was able to record some giraffes returning halfway after an unsuccessful river crossing, but it doesn’t say if the film was included in the documentary. I don’t suppose you know if _Big Cat Diary_\* includes the giraffe footage. I found a page that has photos from the documentary: [Big Cat Diary - Online Gallery](http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/bbc/bcd_gallery.shtml) but of course no mention of giraffes. I’ll have to see if I can order the video somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/15 "2001-02-18T19:20:11Z")
Quite true, **Arnold**. I doubt that many giraffes have had much occasion to swim since the time of Noah. My main point is that the ability to swim doesn’t seem to depend on _learning_ for most mammals (with the evident exception of humans). As long as they can float and keep their heads out of water, they won’t drown; and if they move their limbs in some sort of coordinated fashion, even as if walking, they will move through the water and thus “swim” after a fashion. So if you dumped a giraffe into the middle of the Atlantic, it might still be able to float and make headway, even if its ancestors haven’t had to do so for a very long time. Mind you, I’m not insisting that giraffes _are_ able to swim, just that I’m skeptical that they can’t in the absence of observations. **Smeghead** , I dunno, I think I may need to find someone with experience with eucaryotes, at least. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/16 "2001-02-18T23:21:28Z")
Quoth **Colibri** : > [@](#): > > And I suspect that a dog that had never encountered deep water before would quite sucessfully and spontaneously dog-paddle if it fell off a boat. Eyewitness account here: I was present when my dog Bear (rest his soul) first encountered water too deep for him to wade in. In an effort to cure him of his fear of water (his dad was a retriever, fercryinoutloud!), we took him out on a pond in a raft, and tossed him in. He didn’t swim. He walked across the surface, some ~20 feet to the shore. Somehow, he managed to doggypaddle so vigorously, that nothing other than his legs entered the water, and his chest was dry. As for giraffes not being able to keep their head out of the water, how could this even conceivably be a problem for a creature with a 3-meter neck? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/17 "2001-02-18T23:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*As for giraffes not being able to keep their head out of the water, how could this even conceivably be a problem for a creature with a 3-meter neck? \*\* Well, this goes back to the OP, and is exactly what Mr. Fish seems to have been saying: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by May_ > \*\*The article (“The Wild File” by Stephanie Gregory, March 2001 Outside) cites “Frank Fish, an expert on the enegetics of swimming at West Chester University.” > > “The reason for the giraffe’s inability to swim is painful self-evident: Like a keel without a hull, the long necked creature simply cannot stay upright in the water.”\*\*\* So apparently what he is saying is that a giraffe’s center of gravity is so high that it will just pitch forwards (or sideways) and be unable to keep its head out of the water. But it seems to me that most of the weight is in the body, not the neck, and the long legs would provide something of a counterweight anyway. The center of gravity may well be fairly high in the torso, but I doubt very much it is so high that a giraffe can’t stay upright in the water. I think this guy Fish is just blowin’ smoke. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2001, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/18 "2001-02-18T23:55:25Z")
“He didn’t swim. He walked across the surface, some ~20 feet to the shore. Somehow, he managed to doggypaddle so vigorously, that nothing other than his legs entered the water, and his chest was dry.” Alright! You damn aliens. What have you done with Chronos? And why did you substitute **Lib’s** brain? The memory thingy always betrays you. That, and the scar on the back of the neck. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2001, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/19 "2001-02-19T16:53:08Z")
A-_hah!_ From _Grzimeks’s Animal Life Encyclopedia_, Bernhard Grzimek, 1972, Vol. 13, p. 258: > [@](#): > > \*\* > A difficult obstacle for giraffes is water. Nevertheless, Turner observed two giraffes on the Serengeti in broad daylight walking across a small lake. The water probably was one and a half meters deep. In south Sudan, Scherpner saw three giraffes cross an even larger tributary of the Nile. According to the statements of his native companions, these animals must have swam. It was especially strange to see their necks stretched far forward; only the upper third of the neck and the head were above the water’s surface.\*\* I interpret the last part to mean that Scherpner actually witnessed the giraffes crossing, and his native companions informed him that the river was too deep at that point for them to have been wading. From _East African Mammals_, by Jonathan Kingdon, 1979, Vol. III, Part B, pg. 325: > [@](#): > > **. . .they tend to avoid deeper bogland during the rains, although they will wade quite deep rivers and are reputed to be able to swim.** Ok, not exactly a definitive statement on Kingdon’s part, but as he is the leading authority on African mammals even such a qualified statement has some weight. It’s not as much evidence as I might like, but for my part Mr. Fish’s will actually have to produce a drowned giraffe before I believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687/20 "2001-02-19T17:14:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > My main point is that the ability to swim doesn’t seem to depend on _learning_ for most mammals (with the evident exception of humans). As long as they can float and keep their heads out of water, they won’t drown; and if they move their limbs in some sort of coordinated fashion, even as if walking, they will move through the water and thus “swim” after a fashion. I suppose I didn’t address this point. I was thinking that it would be possible for a land mammal to have evolved in a land environment so much that it would have lost the ability to swim (see Mr. Fish of Westchester University). However, your Mr. Scherpner might have seen swimming giraffes. Unless of course his native companions (that phrase sounds a little dated to me) were pulling his leg. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drowning-giraffes/54687.md?page=2)