# "drug free" herbal remedies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2000, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150 "2000-08-04T18:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/1 "2000-08-04T18:41:22Z")
Just a short rant here. I’m constantly seeing advertisements in stores for “drug free” herbal remedies. Perhaps the fuckwads that write these things need to do their homework. Anything that affects the mind, whether it’s a pill or the compressed roots of god-knows-what, IS A DRUG! Don’t you DARE call your Ma Huang drug free! It’s got fucking ephedrine in it! The plant itself may not be a drug, but it certainly contains one. That’s like saying marijuana isn’t a drug; it’s just the cannabis plant. Oh sure, that plant contains THC, but let’s not mention that in the advertising. This is not only false advertising, it could be downright dangerous. There are prescription drugs that react badly with some of these herbs. If some lummox doesn’t read up and just takes the advertisement at face value, serious consequences could result. No, it’s not likely, but it certainly is possible. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again : advertisments are pure evil. ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/2 "2000-08-06T09:49:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Anything that affects the mind, whether it’s a pill or the compressed roots of god-knows-what, IS A DRUG! So are you saying water is a drug? Sorry, but the rules just aren’t that cut and dry. > [@](#): > > I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: advertisments are pure evil. Well, that’s **one** thing we can agree on. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/3 "2000-08-06T13:53:43Z")
No, water isn’t a drug. Most herbs, however, are. _Dorland’s Illustrated Medical Dictionary_ (28th Ed.) defines _drug_ as: > [@](#): > > Any chemical compound that may be used on or administered to humans or animals as an aid in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of disease or other abnormal condition, for the relief of pain or suffering, or to control or improve any physiologic or pathologic condition. It further defines _herb_ as: > [@](#): > > any leafy plant without a woody stem, **especially one used as a household remedy** or as a flavoring. {emphasis added} Ergo, herbs ARE drugs, inasmuch as they’re remedies used to treat abnormal conditions. Most drugs, in fact, originated as herbs. Morphine, for example, comes from the seed pods of the opium poppy, digitalis comes from the foxglove plant, and the first birth control pills came from a species of Mexican yam. There is a whole branch of pharmacology called pharmacognosy that specifically deals in this kind of thing. One caution that I feel compelled to point out is that there are a number of herb-drug interactions. If you decide to take herbs for any reason, and you take medication, make sure your doc knows about the herbs. Herbs need to be regarded as the drugs they are. Shit, the docs just showed up. There goes my day ☹ Robin ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/4 "2000-08-06T18:31:11Z")
And with the lack of proof most of them provide, maybe we should call them _Remedy-Free Herbal Drugs._ ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/5 "2000-08-06T20:59:50Z")
I know **Robyn** , my comment was meant to show that his definition didn’t work, since drinking enough water can effect your brain. Hitting yourself in the hammer can effect your brain. Lots of things can effect your brain. The word drug is a very loose term that’s hard to define, but his definition was **way** off base. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/6 "2000-08-06T22:04:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FreakFreely \* > \*\*I know **Robyn** , my comment was meant to show that his definition didn’t work, since drinking enough water can effect your brain. Hitting yourself in the hammer can effect your brain. Lots of things can effect your brain. The word drug is a very loose term that’s hard to define, but his definition was **way** off base. \*\* The definition given in the OP was off, but as I posted, _drug_ has a very specific meaning. Herbal products, be they from a bottle from a well-known drug company or from the Chinese herbalist up the street, are drugs. They ARE intended to be used for the treatment of disease, the commercial disclaimers notwithstanding. That makes them drugs. I see your point, however. Robin ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/7 "2000-08-07T04:17:04Z")
And I see your point as well. (we’d better stop agreeing, this **is** The Pit after all) When I said it had a broad definition, I meant in the social sense. Like when someone says “sex is a drug”. Obviously it isn’t technically a drug, it would have to be a noun to be a drug, for one thing. Still, people say that anyway, and you understand what they’re saying when you do. But let’s not continue to hijack an already pointless thread. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/8 "2000-08-07T04:41:29Z")
Point taken Freeky. The definition I gave was told to me a long, long time ago (in high school maybe?). I hadn’t really given a whole lot of thought to how vague of a definition that is. Of course, the basic point of my post still stands. No matter what defintion you give for a drug, herbal medications fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![speakeasy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@speakeasy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/speakeasy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/9 "2000-08-07T04:59:26Z")
I was dredging around various undisclosed locations and came up with this little jewel: > [@](#): > > Passion Flower extract is what is known as a MAO inhibitor, or Mono- Amine-Oxidase inhibitor. Without digressing into lengthy explanations and warnings about MAOI’s I will simply explain that they disable the blood/brain barriers in your body. In order to avoid an adverse reaction (like death) you MUST refrain from eating 12 hours before and after you ingest!! > > !! WARNING !! MAOI’s lower the brain’s barrier against many foods which are completely harmless without MAOI’s. Many foods become LETHAL in combination with them. Such foods include: cheese, alcohol, caffiene, chocolate, animal fats/livers such as chicken, any kind of uppers or downers (including caffiene and diet-pills), MSG (mono-sodium-glutimate) a common food additive, some veggies such as brussel sprouts, dill, wild fennel and other seasonings, etc. Junk food probably contains analogs of most of this too, so just play it safe and don’t eat ANYTHING for 12 hours before or after the ingestion of the Passion Flower!!! It could mean your life. Lovely. Does anybody have any idea if it’s true? Gee I wonder if this warning is on the bottles of the stuff you can get in the health food store? Maybe them ancient Chinese powder peddlers knew a thing or two about catching a buzz! ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/10 "2000-08-07T05:10:33Z")
Actually, I think that one is a little over-the-top, speakeasy. IIRC (those more knowledgable, please correct me if I’m wrong), there are short-term and long-term MAOI’s. Passion flower contains a short-term MAOI and ingestion of it will not produce the symptoms you quoted. Some prescription drugs are long-term MAOI’s and eating large amounts of anything on that list while on those can indeed cause death. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/11 "2000-08-07T05:12:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Passion flower contains a short-term MAOI and ingestion of it will not produce the symptoms you quoted. Of course, what I meant to say was “ingestion of a short-term MAOI **in addition to eating any of the foods you mentioned** won’t kill you.” ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/12 "2000-08-07T07:06:41Z")
I believe I have ingested Passion Flower, and as you can tell, I am alive. Yes, I am a card-carrying herbal crackpot! 😉 Herbs are not to be taken lightly. I have umpteen herbal books, and the good ones do caution about interaction with prescription medication. I check my books before I try anything new, and frankly, I rarely try anything new. There are a few “core” herbs I use for most everything, so it seems. Since I do not currently take any prescription medication, worrying about my herbs clashing with them is not currently an issue. However, the herbs can react to each other. You have to be careful. Any crackpot herbal person who starts taking herbs willy-nilly is being foolhardy. That said, I definitely think herbs have their place. Things like echinacea and goldenseal, garlic, etc., are pretty well-documented as being helpful. One thing I have to say about some medical types - I get the impression that some of them don’t think herbs do ANYTHING. At least there was that smug pharmacist that I met who said that. And the company nurse where I work told me (with a straight face) that vitamins were a waste - that we didn’t need them. Oh well. I usually don’t broadcast my use of herbs to medical types. I don’t want to hear the lecture about how any good they do is all in my head. (I’m not saying that all doctors would say that, but my hunch is that some of them feel that way.) ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/13 "2000-08-07T07:58:50Z")
Well, one good thing passion flower has going for it that nobody can deny - it greatly potentiates the effects of magic mushrooms! Of course, if you’re using it for this reason, there’s a much better MAOI for the job. Eating three grams of peganum harmala seeds effectively _doubles_ the potency of psilocybes! ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-free-herbal-remedies/28150/14 "2000-08-07T22:16:34Z")
I wouldn’t know about potentiating the effects of magic mushrooms. My preferred variety is portabella. 😃 I think the point of the OP is that there is no small shortage of fuzzbrains who take the advice of some aging hippie and assume that if it’s in the form of a green leaf, it’s OK; it can’t/won’t hurt you. This is pretty fallacious reasoning by any definition. You certainly wouldn’t take oleander capsules because you know oleander is poisonous. Foxglove, while the source of the highly beneficial drug digitalis, is also highly poisonous if ingested. Moreover, herbs are not held to the same standard as drugs and vary wildly in terms of strength, purity, and so on. [trueconfession]I’ve been known to use herbs from time to time myself, but I do talk to my doctor about it before I take it to make sure it doesn’t react with anything else I may be taking.[/trueconfession] I’m not saying “herbs are bad”. I’m just saying “for God’s sake, use your common sense!” Robin