# drug raid at children's birthday party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388 "2005-02-10T13:40:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@deena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deena)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/1 "2005-02-10T13:40:38Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/08/birthday.bust.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/08/birthday.bust.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > Police on a drug raid burst into a home during a toddler’s birthday party, startling children who were getting ready to eat their cake when the gun-toting officers crashed the party. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/2 "2005-02-10T13:48:26Z")
Who exactly are you pitting? The police didn’t know there was a birthday party happening, and I’m pretty sure the woman arrested for selling marijuana didn’t expect the cops to show up during the party. ---
**Author:** ![KeithT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KeithT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/3 "2005-02-10T13:52:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Elizabeth Leah Sauls, 21, was hosting her niece’s second birthday party at the time of Friday evening’s raid. She was allegedly smoking marijuana in the master bedroom and continuing to sell pot out of the house as the police moved in. Friend said she received 35 calls requesting the drug in the short time that police were there. > > “We barely had time to conduct interviews because the phone kept ringing with people wanting to buy narcotics,” Friend said. Heh. I don’t understand this pitting, either. The police chief didn’t expect to encounter children, and reacted appropriately once he realized a party was in progress. > [@](#): > > “The first thing I saw was the birthday table and cake, so I yelled for everyone to put away their guns,” Shannon Hills Police Chief Richard Friend said. “You could see they had a nightmare-come-true. Everyone just froze and looked at me. The parents started crying and then the kids started crying.” ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/4 "2005-02-10T15:50:31Z")
Good God! That must have been a cop’s nightmare too! What if the accused decided to fight or resist? All those kids etc–jeebus, I am not one with tons of sympathy for the cops, but really! How dumb is this woman? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/5 "2005-02-10T15:58:23Z")
Certainly the kids are innocent victims, but not of the cops - they had no way to know that a birthday party was in progress, and it certainly sounds like a very credible bust. Just rotten timing. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/6 "2005-02-10T16:07:32Z")
Isn’t it possible that the pitting could be of the irresponsible moron who decided to host a 2-year-old’s birthday party at her private illegal drugstore? Or are we supposed to have sympathy for her because she “didn’t expect the cops to show up during the party?” Huh? Well, I say Elizabeth Leah Sauls is a shithead. OK? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/7 "2005-02-10T16:10:15Z")
I agree with you about Elizabeth Leah Sauls. But when the OP quoted only one line of the story: with the subject of the sentence being the police - I assume that the focus of the pitting is on them. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/8 "2005-02-10T18:16:17Z")
Ok, it’s a terrible thing, and it sounds to me like the officers involved all acted properly. But one question comes to mind: So you’ve got all these officers entering a building on a drug bust. The building just happens to be full of children having a birthday party. The police were unaware of this fact. This means they were unaware of the contents of the building… in any way… on that particular day. What if instead of children, there had been gun-toting wackos? What kind of police chief sends his men into danger without EVEN LOOKING first? I’ve seen children’s birthday parties. They’re not particularly difficult to miss, with a few minutes’ observation. Maybe it’s just me, but if I were to organize a raid, it would go something like this: Gather troops and transport them to the scene. Stop and LOOK AROUND. Verify we’re at the right place, and that what we think is gonna be happening there is, in fact, happening there. Call OpalCat and say hello, ask for advice and maybe some bubblewrap. THEN we move in. …just sayin’, is all. q;} ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/9 "2005-02-10T18:30:02Z")
> [@Phnord Prephect](#): > > Ok, it’s a terrible thing, and it sounds to me like the officers involved all acted properly. > > But one question comes to mind: > > So you’ve got all these officers entering a building on a drug bust. > The building just happens to be full of children having a birthday party. > The police were unaware of this fact. > > This means they were unaware of the contents of the building… in any way… on that particular day. > > What if instead of children, there had been gun-toting wackos? > > What kind of police chief sends his men into danger without EVEN LOOKING first? > > I’ve seen children’s birthday parties. They’re not particularly difficult to miss, with a few minutes’ observation. > > Maybe it’s just me, but if I were to organize a raid, it would go something like this: > > Gather troops and transport them to the scene. > Stop and LOOK AROUND. Verify we’re at the right place, and that what we think is gonna be happening there is, in fact, happening there. > Call OpalCat and say hello, ask for advice and maybe some bubblewrap. > THEN we move in. > > …just sayin’, is all. q;} How do you suppose one would go about this? 😕 We know nothing about the building she’s in. Say the birthday party had already been going on for an hour before the police got there. If they were having an inside party, there’s no reason that the police would have known that any type of party was going on. I suppose they could have called first. ~ring ring~ “Hi, this is the police. We’re planning a raid on your crib later. We just want to see what time would be best for you? 7 PM tomorrow? Thanks! We’ll be there.” I’m thinking the police were carrying guns for the “gun-toting wackos” one might expect to find at a drug raid. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/10 "2005-02-10T18:34:37Z")
Good point, **Phnord**. A little undercover surveillance could have tipped off the raid team to the house occupants prior to the raid. When the surveillance cop phoned in about a dozen children entering with brightly colored boxes, it would be a good time to postpone for an hour or two…unless it would interfere with the SWAT teams tee times, in which case it was acceptable to bust up the party. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/11 "2005-02-10T18:35:42Z")
True story: My dad and his eight siblings grew up on a beautiful farm on the Kentucky River, way out in the country. They still collectively own it, and while the house was still habitable (up until ten years or so ago), they had someone live in the house for rent that was almost nominal (and rarely collected) to keep an eye on the place. We would occasionally have a family reunion up there–more of a big picnic, really, followed by cleaning up the cemetery on the farm where my grandparents are buried. At one such picnic, a couple of my cousins wandered down to the river, though a field of very tall weeds, and they were surprised to find several large pots scattered throughout the weeds with some largish plants growing in them. As it happened, the local sheriff had just married into my family, and another cousin was a state trooper. After confirming that the pots contained what they thought, they made phone calls and brought in trucks. While we were digging into our fried chicken and potato salad, about 100 marijuana plants were loaded up from around the property, and the tenant of the house was taken away in handcuffs. Best family reunion ever! ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/12 "2005-02-10T18:38:06Z")
I believe Phnord is trying to say that the cops ought to have had more intelligence on their raid than they did. THis is true. As he said above, most children’s birthday parties are pretty obvious and shame on the police for not keeping a tighter tab on their subject in the immediate few hours preceeding their raid. Still, the dope dealer needs to be pitted, not the police. It sounds as if they acted in a most rare moment of constraint. Sam ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/13 "2005-02-10T18:43:10Z")
**Jaade** , the place is described as a house late in the article, and the police had been staking it out for weeks. It seems the day they decided to send in an armed team, no one was staking out the house. One guy on surveillance could have noticed a bunch of toddlers entering but not yet leaving. Based on nothing more than the information in one AP story, I think it could have been planned much better. I reserve the right to change this opinion of more detail should become available. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/14 "2005-02-11T18:51:56Z")
That’s why we can’t call involvement with illegal drugs a victimless crime. In this case, the drug using\*/selling\*\* parents put their kids at risk. Sure, surveilence was lacking on the cops part, but let’s put the blame where it really lies. With the goons who put their own kids in jeopardy by choosing to engage in illegal behavior. \*story didn’t say, but I’ve rarely seen anyone selling who didn’t use \*\*story definitely said they were selling and have been for weeks ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/15 "2005-02-11T21:37:51Z")
**NoClueBoy** , we don’t know if the parent(s) knew of the dealing. The party was held at an aunt’s house. I’ve seen enough people in such deep denial about other family members’ or friends’ habits that it is possible they didn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/16 "2005-02-11T21:59:37Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > That’s why we can’t call involvement with illegal drugs a victimless crime. … goons who put their own kids in jeopardy by choosing to engage in illegal behavior. By this standard nothing would constitute a “victimless crime”. If possessing and dealing drugs were legal, then the police wouldn’t have raided the house and the kids wouldn’t have been put in jeopardy. (Note … I’m not advocating legalizing drugs. Just pointing out that logically your argument doesn’t hold water.) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/17 "2005-02-11T23:14:26Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > That’s why we can’t call involvement with illegal drugs a victimless crime. One of the finest examples of twisted reasoning I’ve seen recently. And, unlike **Pochacco** , I do advocate legalizing drugs. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/18 "2005-02-12T00:48:16Z")
Twisted reasoning? WTF? The parent of whom I’m speaking was the householder. The article stated > [@](#): > > Elizabeth Leah Sauls, 21, was hosting her niece’s second birthday party at the time of Friday evening’s raid. She was allegedly smoking marijuana in the master bedroom and continuing to sell pot out of the house as the police moved in. Friend said she received 35 calls requesting the drug in the short time that police were there. (so apparantly she was toking during the party…) Maybe the other parents had no idea what was going on, but this woman certainly did. She chose to engage in an activity that is illegal. By so doing, she put other people at risk. Whether it was a risk because of possible law action or the action of the other criminals is a moot point to me. The only twisted reasoning I see is hers. So, even if you think MY reasoning is off, the bottom .line still is this: that woman knowingly chose to engage in an illegal activity. The fault is hers, not the police’s. Should the police have done a better job? Sure! Am I relieved no one was hurt? Hell yeah! Now, if pot or other drugs were legalised, would that change my mind? That’s not part of this story. Just the facts, ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/19 "2005-02-12T01:07:14Z")
**NoClueBoy** , I stand corrected, but not by your quote. Elsewhere in the article they mention Ms. Saul’s one year old child. Plus, she is pregnant. Smoking either legal or illegal substances is not doing her fetus any good. Parents, and prospective parents, like this make me wish there was some fair and implementable way of screening pre-pregnancyI volunteered to be the judger, but they turned me down. Fuckers… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388/20 "2005-02-12T01:25:56Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Twisted reasoning? WTF? > > The parent of whom I’m speaking was the householder. The article stated: Read it again. She’s the _aunt_, not the parent. > [@](#): > > Maybe the other parents had no idea what was going on, but this woman certainly did. She chose to engage in an activity that is illegal. By so doing, she put other people at risk. Whether it was a risk because of possible law action or the action of the other criminals is a moot point to me. You misunderstand the definition of “victimless crime.” If marijuana were not illegal, would the woman’s actions have caused harm to anyone against their free will? I’d say, provisionally, no, assuming she didn’t have bags of the stuff out where kids could get at it. The fact that the kids were endangered because of the police raid is precisely the reason many people (including yours truly) support legalization/decriminalization. The fact that marijuana is illegal is the _only_ reason there might have been an innocent victim(s) here. Yes, drugs being illegal, the woman deserves scorn and opprobriation for selling drugs while there are children in the house. The woman is definitly a criminal, and should be treated as such. And I hope that the presense of a children’s birthday party in her home while she was breaking the law figures heavily into her sentencing. And I certainly don’t blame the police for doing their jobs and enforcing the law, stupid as said laws may be. But none of that detracts from the fact that if marijuana were not illegal, this situation (and, likely, the ability of this woman to support herself by breaking the law) would never have come about. The entire risk in this situation stems not from the nature of the substance in the house, but from that substance’s legal status. There were potential victims in this crime. But if it had not been a crime, there would have been no victims. Hence, “victimless crime.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-raid-at-childrens-birthday-party/289388.md?page=2)