# Drug Tests For Welfare Recipients? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784 "2011-07-21T00:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/41 "2011-07-21T13:35:52Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I would say even if the costs ultimately are higher, the principle behind this counts also. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > To show that welfare will only be given to the deserving. This, my friends, is the core of the modern Republican perspective. Basically, it’s not fair that I should have to help people who are lazier/stupider/weaker/more sinful/poorer than me. I will fight tooth and nail for the knowledge that none of those less-deserving people get any of my hard-earned and obviously-deserved money. Even if it costs me more money. Because then I can sleep soundly knowing that the weaker people out there are getting what they deserve. And that’s what’s most important. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/42 "2011-07-21T13:52:31Z")
Are you asking if people on welfare should never be allowed to have a drink? Because it certainly sounds like you do, and it does seem to be the consequence of your proposal. I’m still trying to get my head around the idea that people on welfare should never be allowed to enjoy themselves, because… well, why is that exactly? Are miserable people so much more worthy of welfare than people who might enjoy themselves once in a while when they’re already in a shitty situation? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/43 "2011-07-21T13:56:50Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > This, my friends, is the core of the modern Republican perspective. > > Basically, it’s not fair that I should have to help people who are lazier/stupider/weaker/more sinful/poorer than me. I will fight tooth and nail for the knowledge that none of those less-deserving people get any of my hard-earned and obviously-deserved money. Even if it costs me more money. Because then I can sleep soundly knowing that the weaker people out there are getting what they deserve. And that’s what’s most important. This, my friends, is the core of the modern Democratic perspective: we will fight tooth and nail to take away your money and give it to folks who use drugs and don’t work – because then _ **we** _ can sleep soundly, knowing that people who obey the law and work for a living are no longer getting what they deserve. That’s a winning slogan if ever I heard one! ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/44 "2011-07-21T13:57:03Z")
> [@HumanBear](#): > > It’s great that your country has made such a thing available, help to people when they need it. **But you must understand the right-wing argument that you shouldn’t have a baby if you can’t afford it** , and if you haven’t go enough savings to cover a family illness at the same time. It’s hard to argue with that viewpoint, apart from you can’t expect that of everyone for all kinds of reason and there will always be people who need help, so what should we do. Bolding mine. I must understand? Hmm, well I might if the right wing wasn’t trying their best to de-fund entities like Planned Parenthood that help provide affordable contraception. Drug testing as described by the OP isn’t a way of being fiscally responsible. It’s a way of further humiliating people when they’re already down for puritanical reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/45 "2011-07-21T13:57:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You can’t force treatment on someone. It doesn’t work, sadly. Well if they don’t want treatment and they are still taking drugs then maybe they shouldn’t be receiving government money, > [@](#): > > > [@HumanBear](#): > > > > Part of the job of Government, in my opinion most of the job, is to make a nice society where people are happy and life is good. Of course they can’t do this by spending more money than they have, at least not in the long term so it needs to be sustainable in all ways. > > One the reasons I am happy to pay taxes and give money to undesirables (not all welfare recipients are undesirables, but some are) is that I don’t want them mugging me on the street, breaking into my car or home etc. Some people are just not a good fit for our society, and we completely ignore those people at our peril. > > On top of that I think the way the Government treats its citizens reflects back on to society, it’s one of the reason I am against the death penalty it makes a harsher society when the state kills people it doesn’t like. The death penalty doesn’t have the state killpeople it doesn’t like only murderers, traitors, spies, and deserters. > [@inbabylove](#): > > I get so angry at people who have the misconception that welfare is for drunks and druggies. I had a baby in October, the birth was partially paid by state medicaid, and only what my private insurance did not cover (maybe 1500 of 15k) . While still on medical leave waiting for surgery related to said thing my baby’s father had a life moment and was out of work for 2 months. I applied for food stamps. the whole process was smelly and uncomfortable enough without dropping my drawers in such a filthy place, and believe me they don’t just give you foodstamps. you have to produce paperwork showing what you make and spend every month, and the verify with the work number. It took 30ish hours to get it all in! Thanks to the folks who pointed out the impracticality and expense of such a program. In such case I support the use of foodstamps/medicaid/ and whatever other welfare programs that are available. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/46 "2011-07-21T13:59:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In such case I support the use of foodstamps/medicaid/ and whatever other welfare programs that are available. Except when they smoke the occasional joint or have a beer, or am I misrepresenting your position? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/47 "2011-07-21T14:00:50Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Except when they smoke the occasional joint or have a beer, or am I misrepresenting your position? No if they’re alcoholics or drug addicts not occasional users. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/48 "2011-07-21T14:06:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No if they’re alcoholics or drug addicts not occasional users. Regardless of the fact that many people can be fairly productive members of society when addicted, how does your mandatory screening proposal distinguish between the occasional users and addicts? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/49 "2011-07-21T14:07:53Z")
First I think we should test Lawyers and Judges, and Politicians and lawmakers, including screening for alcohol and prescription drugs. I would prioritize that above welfare recipients. Let me know how that goes. This ridiculous proposition reveals how Fundamental Christianity resembles Fundamental Islam in it’s barbarism. Who is really surprised they are only one step apart, after all? Curtis you never seem to tire of trying to legislate morality, (yours of course). One would almost think you’d never read history. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/50 "2011-07-21T14:13:04Z")
I just want to make sure we’re all on the same page of a separate point: if the OP wants, in private life, to donate money only to those who abstain from pot and booze – or who indulge in one but not the other – we’re all okay with _ **that,** _ right? As a free citizen with his own hard-earned cash to distribute as he sees fit, he can give only to people he believes are worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/51 "2011-07-21T14:15:06Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I just want to make sure we’re all on the same page of a separate point: if the OP wants, in private life, to donate money only to those who abstain from pot and booze – or who indulge in one but not the other – we’re all okay with _ **that,** _ right? As a free citizen with his own hard-earned cash to distribute as he sees fit, he can give only to people he believes are worth it? Well, I would think it’s kinda stupid, but sure he’s free to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/52 "2011-07-21T14:23:19Z")
TEVYE: And Reb Nachum, the beggar… NACHUM: Alms for the poor… alms for the poor… LAZAR WOLF: Here you are, Reb Nachum. One kopec. NACHUM: One kopec? Last week you gave me two kopecs! LAZAR WOLF: Well, I had a bad week. NACHUM: So? Because you had a bad week, I should suffer? I have more of a problem with the claim that recipients are OWED society’s largess than with the claim that giving it is wise. In other words, if you come along and say, “Paying benefits has the following good results for society, and drug testing costs more than the benefits saved will be,” then that makes sense to me. If you say that because they are poor and needy, we as a secular society MUST, as a matter of obligation, give up money to them, I object. Strenuously. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/53 "2011-07-21T14:33:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you say that because they are poor and needy, we as a secular society MUST, as a matter of obligation, give up money to them, I object. Absolutely no argument from me. My concern here is that lots of members of society benefit from government programs and largess. But the only ones being asked to submit to morals-based screening are the very poor. Why not ask the same of anyone getting college loans, mortgage tax exemption, or farm subsidies? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/54 "2011-07-21T14:37:47Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > First I think we should test Lawyers and Judges, and Politicians and lawmakers, including screening for alcohol and prescription drugs. I would prioritize that above welfare recipients. Let me know how that goes. > > This ridiculous proposition reveals how Fundamental Christianity resembles Fundamental Islam in it’s barbarism. Who is really surprised they are only one step apart, after all? > > Curtis you never seem to tire of trying to legislate morality, (yours of course). One would almost think you’d never read history. I do not advocate legislating morality by for example banning adulterous sex. But this is not legislating morality. It is simply not giving taxpayer to those who if they use them will just use it to hurt themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/55 "2011-07-21T14:41:07Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Absolutely against this for all the reasons listed, and because we have such a fundamental misunderstanding of addiction. It isn’t a moral failing any more than diabetes, and until people get that through their heads we won’t get anywhere with drug treatment in this country. :dubious: Drug dependency must start with a person making a choice. Diabetes not so much. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/56 "2011-07-21T14:42:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In other words, if you come along and say, “Paying benefits has the following good results for society, and drug testing costs more than the benefits saved will be,” then that makes sense to me. Well, that’s what I came along [and said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14046224&postcount=27) while providing facts with cites of such a law implemented in the real world. But I haven’t seen any of those who support drug testing of welfare recipients acknowledge those facts whatsoever. I really think a lot of people don’t realize how little money welfare recipients receive, and how few welfare recipients there actually are. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/57 "2011-07-21T14:56:03Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Absolutely no argument from me. > > My concern here is that lots of members of society benefit from government programs and largess. But the only ones being asked to submit to morals-based screening are the very poor. Why not ask the same of anyone getting college loans, mortgage tax exemption, or farm subsidies? I don’t have a problem with that… provided, again, that the savings outstrip the cost of the program. I am sure there are drug-taking homeowners and farmers, but I suspect (without proof) that their numbers are proportionally small. As to college loans… there you might have something. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/58 "2011-07-21T14:57:18Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Well, that’s what I came along [and said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14046224&postcount=27) while providing facts with cites of such a law implemented in the real world. But I haven’t seen any of those who support drug testing of welfare recipients acknowledge those facts whatsoever. I acknowledge them. 😃 Actually, I’m not so much a supporter as I am not an opponent of the plan, assuming the issues you raise are dealt with. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/59 "2011-07-21T15:09:58Z")
When we saved the bankers with the TARP program, we should have drug tested the whole lot. I bet you would be surprised how many drug users get our tax money. But they would strenuously object. It would infringe of their rights of privacy. But the poor. Screw them. make them grovel. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/60 "2011-07-21T15:15:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > When we saved the bankers with the TARP program, we should have drug tested the whole lot. I bet you would be surprised how many drug users get our tax money. But they would strenuously object. It would infringe of their rights of privacy. But the poor. Screw them. make them grovel. I have no objection to this plan. But I would point out that [virtually all](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704261504576205142438418336.html) TARP funds have been repaid. Not sure if that makes a difference in the calculations, but we don’t require welfare recipients to repay what we give them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784.md?page=4)