# Drug Tests For Welfare Recipients? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784 "2011-07-21T00:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/61 "2011-07-21T15:39:05Z")
That was not the point was it? The TARP was paid back with our money anyway. But the drug use of the recipients was the question. I think alcohol and cocaine use in the upper financial classes would shock most people who think the rich are somehow special and better. We are talking of a huge drug testing bureaucracy that would cost money ,not save it. But hopefully it would bolster the anti poor prejudices of many people. Then it would for them, be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/62 "2011-07-21T15:41:46Z")
We absolutely need to drug test politicians and defense lawyers. they are getting government money. And judges they seem pretty goofy . ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/63 "2011-07-21T15:42:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well if they don’t want treatment and they are still taking drugs then maybe they shouldn’t be receiving government money, But it seems you only believe this about poor people. These laws are discriminatory and only serve to humiliate poor people. I’m still waiting for someone somewhere to attempt to pass a law requiring anyone receiving government money to submit to a drug test(Pell grants, federally subsidized loans, etc.) I don’t think that is going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/64 "2011-07-21T15:56:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have more of a problem with the claim that recipients are OWED society’s largess than with the claim that giving it is wise. In other words, if you come along and say, “Paying benefits has the following good results for society, and drug testing costs more than the benefits saved will be,” then that makes sense to me. > > If you say that because they are poor and needy, we as a secular society MUST, as a matter of obligation, give up money to them, I object. > > Strenuously. I see it more as a matter that we as a secular society SHOULD, as a matter of obligation, give money to the poor and needy. But if we agree on the point that there are people who should receive money due to being poor and needy, how does drug use enter into it? Does a person who is poor and uses drugs somehow less in need than a person who is poor and doesn’t use drugs? Charity should be given out solely on the basis of need, not on the basis of our opinion of the receipient. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/65 "2011-07-21T16:03:54Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > This, my friends, is the core of the modern Republican perspective. > > Basically, it’s not fair that I should have to help people who are lazier/stupider/weaker/more sinful/poorer than me. I will fight tooth and nail for the knowledge that none of those less-deserving people get any of my hard-earned and obviously-deserved money. Even if it costs me more money. Because then I can sleep soundly knowing that the weaker people out there are getting what they deserve. And that’s what’s most important. Kind of an unusual point of view. I might object to having my money taken for taxes. But if it is taken, I’d prefer to think that it was being given to some poor person rather than spend on a drug test. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > This, my friends, is the core of the modern Democratic perspective: we will fight tooth and nail to take away your money and give it to folks who use drugs and don’t work – because then _ **we** _ can sleep soundly, knowing that people who obey the law and work for a living are no longer getting what they deserve. > > That’s a winning slogan if ever I heard one! You missed the point. Qin acknowledges that his plan might end up costing more than the welfare payments it eliminates. So it’s his program you should be objecting to. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/66 "2011-07-21T16:04:36Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And those children if their parents happen to be addicts are unfit and thus should be taken away by social services. And then what? We’ve already got a shortage of foster families. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/67 "2011-07-21T16:17:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You missed the point. Qin acknowledges that his plan might end up costing more than the welfare payments it eliminates. So it’s his program you should be objecting to. Hiring one extra cop for my community might end up saving me a little money by preventing a burglary, or it might end up costing me more than it saves (possibly no one was going to steal from me in any event). I don’t see that I should _ **necessarily** _ object to a plan that may or may not end up costing more; it may prevent enough lawbreakers from getting my money to justify the cost, it may not. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/68 "2011-07-21T16:30:00Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > And then what? … Dickens or Swift? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/69 "2011-07-21T16:52:18Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Do you support or oppose laws that require those who sign up for welfare to take drug tests? Completely opposed–what few studies exist with alcoholics suggest that penalizing welfare recipients for their addictions costs the state significantly more money in hospital, policing, and jail expenses than simply letting them feed their addictions would. Furthermore, there’s evidence that a roof overhead and a steady source of food helps people fight alcoholism, and I see no reason that wouldn’t generalize to other drugs. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/70 "2011-07-21T16:56:20Z")
Most welfare recipients are children. Should we test them from birth? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/71 "2011-07-21T17:06:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Most welfare recipients are children. Should we test them from birth? Nah, we just let them go hungry if mommy can’t pass her drug test. Gotta save that money so corporations can amortize their private jets faster, oil companies get those precious subsidies, and Paris Hilton doesn’t have to pay a nickel more in taxes. What are starving children compared to the needs of the wealthy? Come on, this is America- government of the top 1%, by the top 1%, and for the top 1%. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/72 "2011-07-21T17:14:06Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Do you support or oppose laws that require those who sign up for welfare to take drug tests? Yes, I do, but I don’t support denying them welfare. > [@](#): > > As a sidenote I think it would be a good idea to forcibly institutionalzie those type of people-one of President Reagan’s few mistakes was his law releasing most of them into the streets. First they came for the drug addicts, but I did not speak because I was not a drug addict.. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/73 "2011-07-21T17:26:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But if we agree on the point that there are people who should receive money due to being poor and needy, how does drug use enter into it? Does a person who is poor and uses drugs somehow less in need than a person who is poor and doesn’t use drugs? Maybe because if the person wasn’t using their money to buy drugs they wouldn’t “need” so much federal help. If your kid had a $200/day cocaine habit, but couldn’t make the electric bill, would you think he was “needy” since he couldn’t pay his utilities? Of course not, you wouldn’t give him a dime. You might pay his electric bill, but you wouldn’t give him cash knowing that he was putting it up his nose. That’s my opinion. If you fail a drug test, no more cash payments to you. The money goes directly to people providing necessary services. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/74 "2011-07-21T18:10:54Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Maybe because if the person wasn’t using their money to buy drugs they wouldn’t “need” so much federal help. > > If your kid had a $200/day cocaine habit, but couldn’t make the electric bill, would you think he was “needy” since he couldn’t pay his utilities? Of course not, you wouldn’t give him a dime. You might pay his electric bill, but you wouldn’t give him cash knowing that he was putting it up his nose. > > That’s my opinion. If you fail a drug test, no more cash payments to you. The money goes directly to people providing necessary services. Again. Does that apply to bankers and politicians? They also take government money, lots of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/75 "2011-07-21T18:15:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Sorry, two year old child, you can’t eat today because your mommy smoked some weed. Personal responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/76 "2011-07-21T18:22:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Sorry, two year old child, you can’t eat today because your mommy smoked some weed. Can you support this statement by showing this is a real problem in our country? Maybe a handful of pot smokers don’t buy food, but that’s not usually the case. Pot smokers are well known for getting the munchies. I’m pretty sure that in general they do not skimp on the groceries. This is more a problem with crackheads and methheads who do not want to eat due to the drug. When I broke my back and got food stamps for a while, I confess that I did buy some fruit for the purpose of wine making. of course, the rules say you have to buy food, which I did, but they don’t say what you can do with the food after the fact, he he, other than you can’t share it with someone the welfare office doesn’t know about. And since my cat isn’t a person, I felt ok sharing a bit of my food with the cat. They really should allow say 5% of food stamp money to be used for animal food. It’s cheaper than buying raw meat to feed a carnivore. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/77 "2011-07-21T18:23:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have more of a problem with the claim that recipients are OWED society’s largess than with the claim that giving it is wise. In other words, if you come along and say, “Paying benefits has the following good results for society, and drug testing costs more than the benefits saved will be,” then that makes sense to me. > > If you say that because they are poor and needy, we as a secular society MUST, as a matter of obligation, give up money to them, I object. > > Strenuously. Don’t complain then if some poor guy with the same philosophy cuts your throat and loots your body. If you owe them no consideration, then they owe you no consideration. And expecting people to just sit in a corner and quietly starve to death is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/78 "2011-07-21T18:25:53Z")
What about the guy on welfare who grows weed for free and that’s it? What’s the rationale for cutting him off of welfare? Gonna starve his kids just cause he smokes some reefer? I think the lowest of the low are the damn piss sniffers. I couldn’t look myself in the mirror each morning knowing I was gonna invade some people’s lives in a misguided sense of morality. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/79 "2011-07-21T18:35:29Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > People taking the government money, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, etc should be tested for drugs. > > Why? People who take drugs are far less likely to be able to get off those programs and actually get a straight job. Lessee, guy takes a few tokes on the weekend, he gets piss tested and can’t get a job. It’s not necessarily their fault they can’t get a job but sometimes the fault of piss sniffers who want to impose their moral judgment on others and freaking starve them out if they don’t comply. I’m amazed when “Christians” do this. (Not saying you are a christian, diggerwam) ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784/80 "2011-07-21T18:48:37Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > It’s clear that you don’t get it. Drug treatment, as it stands right now, is a joke. The 12-step model is not enough for most people, and the few alternatives to it aren’t much better. The idea of teaching addicts that they have a permanently incurable disease is really nothing more than ensuring repeat business for drug treatment centers, who, if they reach their claimed goal, are out of business. (never trust a business who says its goal is to put itself out of business.) Other approaches have been much more effective, such as an approach that the addiction is a symptom which has underlying causes which _can be_ treated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/589784.md?page=5)