# Drunk driving is bad... unless you live out in the sticks. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058 "2013-01-23T00:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/21 "2013-01-23T03:42:12Z")
Without alcohol, it would be impossible to tolerate recovering alcoholics. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/22 "2013-01-23T04:08:35Z")
I consider myself uninformed about the specific situation in Kerry, but I do believe that not all roads are equal, and it is reasonable that the severity of alcohol/driving laws be able to move in more than one direction. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/23 "2013-01-23T04:21:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Without alcohol, it would be impossible to tolerate recovering alcoholics. And nobody knows that better than recovering alcoholics. Here you get one of us mentioning it now and then. _We_ have to sit in meetings _full_ of recovering alcoholics! And they insist on _talking_ about their alcoholism! Normals are boring enough but we are much, much worse. As my daddy said, “There’s nothing worse than a reformed whore.” It’s worse than you can imagine. Just thinking about makes me want a drink. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/24 "2013-01-23T04:38:50Z")
From the wording it is a little curious that driving after drinking is permissible only if you’ve just left a pub. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/25 "2013-01-23T04:48:49Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > It makes sense to me that the legal limits shouldn’t necessarily be the same if you’re driving through a major city or on a congested highway as they are on an isolated rural road. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I consider myself uninformed about the specific situation in Kerry, but I do believe that not all roads are equal, and it is reasonable that the severity of alcohol/driving laws be able to move in more than one direction. It’s unclear from your responses whether you think legal BAL limits should be higher or lower in rural areas than in urban zones. I would argue that either proposition is asinine, but it would be helpful if I knew which particular flavor of stupidity I was dealing with. Once again, may I present a [typical Kerry country road](http://www.flickr.com/photos/68617652@N00/213430522/) (that’s a 2-lane road, theoretically). These aren’t like rural roads in the US with which I am familiar (10 years driving in NH, 5 years in TX). They are dangerous on a good day. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/26 "2013-01-23T04:56:21Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m OK with this. > > I’m quite confident that at .10BAC I could pass any reasonable standardize driving test that would prove I’m not a danger to anyone. > > Sure, my reaction times have slowed down but not to the point where they are a danger. [Johnny](http://www.examiner.com/article/dr-johnny-fever-passes-the-sobriety-test)? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/27 "2013-01-23T07:50:12Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m quite confident that at .10BAC I could pass any reasonable standardize driving test that would prove I’m not a danger to anyone. > > Sure, my reaction times have slowed down but not to the point where they are a danger. Sure. Sure. Of course you’re the best person to evaluate your own abilities when drunk. This kind of reasoning is why some European countries now has a maximum BAC of 0.02% > [@](#): > > Compared with drivers who have not consumed alcohol, the risk of a single-vehicle fatal crash for drivers with BAC’s between 0.02 and 0.04 percent is estimated to be 1.4 times higher; for those with BAC’s between 0.05 and 0.09 percent, 11.1 times higher; for drivers with BAC’s between 0.10 and 0.14 percent, 48 times higher; and for those with BAC’s at or above 0.15 percent, the risk is estimated to be 380 times higher (8). > **[What Happens When You Get a DUI](https://www.verywellmind.com/if-you-get-a-dui-67215)** > > What happens when you get a DUI varies based on where you live and other factors. Getting a DUI may result in different consequences in different states. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/28 "2013-01-23T09:48:39Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Originally Posted by **The Irish Examiner** > The drink-drive limit is 50mg for all drivers and 20mg for learner or newly qualified drivers. > [@Small\_Hen](#): > > Anyone know what that translates to in blood alcohol level? > [@sisu](#): > > 0.05 and 0.02, what is the proposed limit? If it’s 0.08 then it’s prob OK. I think to have an informed discussion, we need to know the proposed new higher levels. Neither of the articles mention the new higher limit other than the vague reference to “two or three drinks”. First of all, is **sisu** ’s conversion correct? 50mg = 0.05 BAC? Kinda seems overly restrictive to me- and I say that only because I hope it will inspire **Fuji** to post more photos of the beautiful Irish countryside with its charming rural raodways. I kid because I actually do believe **Fuji** makes a good point that the specific road conditions need to be considered and that we American Dopers arguing the issue from an America-centric viewpoint take our lovely wide well-lit roads for granted. _However_, although the roads are narrower and poorly lit, you’d be more likely to _not actually encounter any other drivers_ than if you were on an American road. Without a number for the new higher limit, I can’t offer a strong opinion. Well, I can’t offer a strong opinion of the move to raise the limit . . . I _can_ however offer an opinion on the proposed goal of the new legislation: This move is aimed at _accomodating the elderly_??? Seriously??? We want to encourage more elderly drivers . . . to drive at night??? Yeah, bad goal. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/29 "2013-01-23T10:26:11Z")
First of all, if people aren’t aware, this has no chance whatsoever of becoming law, and these people have no power whatsoever, they are basically the super plebs of the political system (not that I know that much about the Irish one). Also apparently the ring leader is a bit of an attention whore, an Irish person tells me. Was making noise about a rubbish tip or something a few months ago. Secondly - I actually think he may have a not-ridiculous point. The key to this is that bit of Ireland really is super rural, and I don’t think it’s unreasaonble to think there’s a good argument for some of those farmers that literally the only time they get out is to the pub twice a week, driving ten or twenty miles along a single track road with no one else on it (apart from other drink drivers). This is not equivilant to drink driving in a city or a fast trunk road. I also have to say I really resent this anti-alcohol culture that is creeping in everywhere at the moment - sure, it kills you, but you have great fun along the way. And what these guys are proposing is only fairly sensible drinking, I promise you most of these guys could drive well enough after six pints or similar, which is techincally a lot of alochol but nothing to people who drink properly - and again, even if they can’t, there’s nothing to hit. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/30 "2013-01-23T10:42:15Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > If it’s illegal to stay at home to drink, and if Ireland sports a complete lack of taxicabs, this law might make sense. But it’s _haaaaaard_ for people in that area to have the drunken fun they want without driving themselves. Really really _haaaaaard_. And opting not to get drunk if they can’t do it when and where they want it just isn’t an option. (This argument is actually fairly common, IME. I’ve seen it on here before. Some people think they have an absolute right to get drunk in a bar, and if society doesn’t hand them a bus, a taxi, or friends willing to drive them to the house they chose to live in, they just get a free pass from the rules.) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/31 "2013-01-23T10:51:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m dubious about the argument as a whole, but I don’t think that’s quite what the guy is saying. I don’t think he’s talking about people who are so alcoholic that they won’t leave their property in favor of being drunk. I think he’s saying that people aren’t attending social functions involving alcohol because they don’t have a way to get home (I’m guessing the area is sufficiently rural to rule out bus service, and to make taxis prohibitively expensive). If all the social function in your area revolve around alcohol, then they’re just not going out at all anymore, and end up alone and depressed. Yeah, from what I’ve heard, there are severely economically depressed areas of the Republic of Ireland (14.6% unemployment rate). I know a recovering alcoholic online who volunteers, speaks several languages and has a degree and the nearest restaurant refuses to let him work there even for free. He says he’s applied everywhere within a 20 mile radius. Another family friend moved from Kerry (IIRC) to London for better work prospects. She said she had to either get lifts from family members or the young people in her area would order a coach to town for Friday nights. My batshit lefty response would be to institute a progressive tax to fund better public transport. More opportunity to socialise, no greater number of drunk drivers and more jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/32 "2013-01-23T12:06:58Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > But it’s _haaaaaard_ for people in that area to have the drunken fun they want without driving themselves. Really really _haaaaaard_. And opting not to get drunk if they can’t do it when and where they want it just isn’t an option. (This argument is actually fairly common, IME. I’ve seen it on here before. Some people think they have an absolute right to get drunk in a bar, and if society doesn’t hand them a bus, a taxi, or friends willing to drive them to the house they chose to live in, they just get a free pass from the rules.) They’re not asking for a pass from the rules. They’re asking for the rules to be changed to be in line with common sense. They’re not asking for free transport from society either (although I think there would be an argument for providing transport under the NHS actually, for the most isolated farmers anyway). This is **not** hedonistic drunken fun. This is slightly tipsy socialising with friends for desperately isolated, hard working, decent people. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/33 "2013-01-23T12:26:25Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I also have to say I really resent this anti-alcohol culture that is creeping in everywhere at the moment - sure, it kills you, but you have great fun along the way. At least for those values of “great fun” which include running over a pedestrian or mowing down a bicyclist. You see, in this part of the world, roads are not only used by cars. Quite a few people here use their feet or are on bikes, and as such they’re at more than a slight disadvantage if they’re hit by a one-and-a-half ton contraption made from scrap iron, plastic, rubber and gasoline. I could hardly care less if a drunk driver veered off the road, through a tree and into a river _all by himself_. Sow, reap and all that. My problem with drunk drivers - including those who believe that they “at .10BAC could pass any reasonable standardized driving test” - is that they endanger _other people_ by willfully and deliberately impairing their reaction speed, attention and coordination before they get behind the wheel. That kind of egotism makes me stabby. ETA: I’ve given first aid at a traffic accident involving drunk driving. It was very much not funny. Fortunately, only the drunk driver was involved. I can pretty much guarantee that if there had been more people involved, the guy stinking of booze would have ended up at the very bottom of my personal triage list. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/34 "2013-01-23T12:36:20Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m OK with this. > > I’m quite confident that at .10BAC I could pass any reasonable standardize driving test that would prove I’m not a danger to anyone. > > Sure, my reaction times have slowed down but not to the point where they are a danger. Bet you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/35 "2013-01-23T12:47:48Z")
I’m not sure that’s the right solution, but I do think it’s good to be thinking outside of the box, and I think the proper solution will be social, not punitive. I think it’s silly that people are of the mindset of “oh no there are crazy evil drunk drivers killing people lock them away!” when the reality of the situation is that people like to drink and socialize, have limited resources, and need help with either transportation or lodging. Which kind of system is the best fit and the most efficient (transport or lodging, volunteer or commercial or tax money) will depend on the particulars of the community. But it really is a community issue and not a criminal one. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/36 "2013-01-23T12:59:14Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I think it’s silly that people are of the mindset of “oh no there are crazy evil drunk drivers killing people lock them away!” when the reality of the situation is that people like to drink and socialize, have limited resources, and need help with either transportation or lodging. Then the answer is to provide help with transportation/lodging, organize entertainment that is not centered on drinking and provide psychological support for those who get depressed at the idea of not being able to have ‘a few beers’ and then careen home on the local roads with only, um, minimal risk to themselves and others. I’m a bit surprised that they “oh, they’ll get depressed” argument hasn’t been employed in the U.S. over bans on smoking in bars and restaurants. We have of course gotten the claim that such establishments will close wholesale due to the bans, which hasn’t happened (I haven’t seen evidence that Irish pubs are going extinct over smoking bans either). ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/37 "2013-01-23T13:46:21Z")
I think we agree, other jack. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/38 "2013-01-23T13:51:37Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > It’s unclear from your responses whether you think legal BAL limits should be higher or lower in rural areas than in urban zones. I would argue that either proposition is asinine, but it would be helpful if I knew which particular flavor of stupidity I was dealing with. > > Once again, may I present a [typical Kerry country road](http://www.flickr.com/photos/68617652@N00/213430522/) (that’s a 2-lane road, theoretically). These aren’t like rural roads in the US with which I am familiar (10 years driving in NH, 5 years in TX). They are dangerous on a good day. Speaking only for myself - I am not saying that I think BAL limits _should_ be higher/lower on different roads. I _am_ saying that questioning or changing legislation regarding alcohol and driving shouldn’t be taboo, and so on the surface, knowing nothing about the numbers involved in this case, there is nothing inherently wrong with bringing such proposals to the table. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/39 "2013-01-23T14:30:15Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I wouldn’t call two or three drinks “hammered.” Here in the Midwest that much will be drank before the appetizers arrive. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/40 "2013-01-23T14:34:02Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Seriously??? We want to encourage more elderly drivers . . . to drive at night??? _ **Drunk** _ elderly drivers, no less. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058.md?page=3)