# Drunk driving is bad... unless you live out in the sticks. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058 "2013-01-23T00:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/61 "2013-01-23T21:20:09Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > I’m not a tourist, you muppet. Doughbag, who posted on the last page, is also not a tourist. As people who actually, you know, live and drive here, you might accord our experiences a little more weight. I know. But _you_ cited tourist impressions to bolster the argument that Irish roads are unsafe. (I have driven in rural southern and western Ireland also.) And while you may live in Ireland now, you do seem to be writing from the perspective of someone who was accustomed to driving on American-standard roads. My point is that American road design, for some decades, was largely about enabling high speeds and driver convenience (“unimpeded flow”), not safety per se. Recommendations to make American streets safer nowadays often include constricting them physically or visually, to deliberately create the kind of attention-demand you find problematic in Ireland. In short, you may _feel_ safer cruising a broad American highway than winding through narrow Irish lanes, but a comparison of the actual casualty rates between countries does not bear this out. > [@Fuji](#): > > From the RSA is this [PDF](http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/file,3641,en.PDF) which shows (p. 10) that, from 1990-2000, the VAST (60-70%) majority of fatal accidents were in rural areas as opposed to the cities. I’ll look at that when I have more time, but that’s not what I was addressing. I’m perfectly amenable to the proposition that Irish rural driving is more dangerous than Irish city driving. What I’m disputing is that American standards of road width and so forth would necessarily represent an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/62 "2013-01-23T21:21:21Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Disclosure: I know **Doughbag** IRL. > > He drinks maybe a couple times per _year_. I have seen him literally stumbling after three girly drinks (Smirnoff Ice or some such crap). Trust me - you wouldn’t want him to get behind the wheel after _one_ drink, let alone three. And - no offense, **Doughbag** - I am skeptical that his constitution is noteworthy or exceptional in this regard. Point taken. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/63 "2013-01-23T21:34:27Z")
Look, the whole Healy-Rae family is a national fucking joke. They’re embarrassing. Also, he doesn’t make the laws around here. He can pass any motion he wants; it won’t become law. It’ll just give him and his supporters a nice warm glow about how clever they are for shticking it to them Dubliners, begorrah and begob. The point supporters of this idea are making isn’t about drink per se - no one with a brain is arguing that farmers are killing themselves because they’re too stupid to figure out how to drink at home. The argument is that some farmers are very, very isolated, there’s no public transport, and the social centre of most rural communities, especially for single men, is the pub - if they can’t go there, they’re utterly isolated. The obvious counterargument is that it’s actually possible to go to the pub without drinking booze - and if you’re claiming that two or three pints wouldn’t have any effect on you, then why can’t you just go without them? Also, the concept of the designated driver does exist over here: there’s no reason why three or four guys shouldn’t rotate the driving. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/64 "2013-01-23T22:18:55Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Disclosure: I know **Doughbag** IRL. > > He drinks maybe a couple times per _year_. I have seen him literally stumbling after three girly drinks (Smirnoff Ice or some such crap). Trust me - you wouldn’t want him to get behind the wheel after _one_ drink, let alone three. And - no offense, **Doughbag** - I am skeptical that his constitution is noteworthy or exceptional in this regard. This, my fellow Americans, is _exactly_ why _ **we** _ call New Year’s Eve “Amateur Night”. It’s the one night of the year that Americans that match **Fuji** ’s description of **Doughbag** drink and then get behind the wheel. And why many of us who do drink regularly get the hell off the road starting at nightfall on 31 Dec, and won’t consider driving _anywhere_ that isn’t an absolute emergency until at least sunrise of 1 Jan. Instead we find a nice, safe place to get _actually_ hammered, and fucking _stay_ there, until sunrise. People who don’t drink regularly _most assuredly do_ get ‘hammered’ after only 3 drinks. And you do _not_ want to be on the same road they’re driving. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/65 "2013-01-23T22:20:16Z")
One thing about drunken drivers - the general US/UK limit of 0.08 is actually scientifically sensible in that it is where deterioration starts to be statistically significant. These lower limits are all about “sending out messages” and crap like that. In particular, I wasn’t aware of the Irish 0.02 thing (I knew of it in NI though) - btw do you have “R” plates and a silly lower speed limit for kids like they do in Northern Ireland as well? Yes I could google, but why bother when you can tell me 😉 And continuing on that word - most of the drink driving accidents are from people WAYYYYY over the limit. Edit: This was a word cause I have a more detailed contribution to make adressing specific points, but I need to get a drink first. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/66 "2013-01-23T22:58:43Z")
No R plates in the Republic. In my area, I live in Dublin but the somewhat rural part of it, some of the pubs/clubs have buses to pick up and in one or two cases to drop home drinkers. Are Kerry publicans immune to putting their hand in their pocket and providing a coach taxi service for their regulars? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/67 "2013-01-24T00:16:05Z")
Dude, you know Ireland far better than me, but even I know Kerry (and btw I was scoffing a ham sandwich with kerrygold less than 60 seconds ago) is full of places where it’s totally impractical for publicans to provide the transport without subsisdy. It would be like asking the landlord of my new local (I have just had to move back in with my parents due to my business basically colllapsing) to give me a lift to the nearest village to the south, which is 30 miles down a single lane road… ridic! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/68 "2013-01-24T00:54:04Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I live in Dublin but the somewhat rural part of it… (looking at Dublin’s statistics) With less than two million people in the entire metro area the whole fucking town is “somewhat rural.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/69 "2013-01-24T00:56:11Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Dude, you know Ireland far better than me, but even I know Kerry (and btw I was scoffing a ham sandwich with kerrygold less than 60 seconds ago) is full of places where it’s totally impractical for publicans to provide the transport without subsisdy. It would be like asking the landlord of my new local (I have just had to move back in with my parents due to my business basically colllapsing) to give me a lift to the nearest village to the south, which is 30 miles down a single lane road… ridic! Well I don’t think the transport could cater to every single person’s desires but I’ve not heard any mention of even an attempt at such a service in the context of rural pubs’ livelihoods being extinguished and realistically no pub has regulars travelling more than probably I dunno 10 miles. The service needn’t even be provided gratis to the drinkers. I know in rural Northern Ireland I can get a taxi to 10 miles out of a town and only pay £10, although I usually tip. Charge the auld lads a fiver each for the privilege or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/70 "2013-01-24T00:57:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > (looking at Dublin’s statistics) With less than two million people in the entire metro area the whole fucking town is “somewhat rural.” 😉 Meh, the built up part of Dublin has the population density of New Jersey. I live in the non-built up part. These things are relative of course. Two million is about 45% of the country’s population. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/71 "2013-01-24T01:03:14Z")
Jesus, the whole country has half the population of Chicagoland! ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/72 "2013-01-24T02:26:59Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m OK with this. > > I’m quite confident that at .10BAC I could pass any reasonable standardize driving test that would prove I’m not a danger to anyone. > > Sure, my reaction times have slowed down but not to the point where they are a danger. Well unless you are a high functioning alcoholic I doubt it very much. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/73 "2013-01-24T03:19:30Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > You’re right. I just checked Snopes; this whole “drunk driving kills” shtick is just an urban legend. > > :rolleyes: haha I think you missed my entire point which was of course drunk driving is bad and there should be legal ramifications, but the problem itself is a social one, not a criminal one, and the most effective solutions will be social or community ones rather than mere policing or branding offenders as storybook villains. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/74 "2013-01-24T03:55:01Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m quite confident that at .10BAC I could pass any reasonable standardize driving test that would prove I’m not a danger to anyone. > > Sure, my reaction times have slowed down but not to the point where they are a danger. Tried it and you are an idiot if you believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/75 "2013-01-24T06:08:47Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > But then again, American D.U.I. laws are as much about raising revenue as they are about keeping dangerous drivers off the roads. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/76 "2013-01-24T06:42:33Z")
This is another situation where things were better in the old days. Getting home from a country pub on a country road on a horse is possible for even the most shitfaced of farmers provided they can hang on. With a cart you could even be completely passed out and your equine designated driver would get you back to the barn. I thought that was the new rage in [Irish transportation](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8) in any case. (warning- link contains coarse language and men in disturbing plastic bag face masks.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/77 "2013-01-24T08:04:31Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > sure, it kills you, but you have great fun along the way. No, you don’t. You really, really don’t. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/78 "2013-01-24T08:21:51Z")
Still no numbers provided for the proposed higher limit? The majority of the people posting here are accustomed to the socially accepted and legally imposed limit of .08% which is notably higher than Ireland’s .05%. If those of us not quite outraged by the vague and _still_ undefined “less severe drink driving regulations” are to be persuaded to see the opposing viewpoint, is it really so much to ask that numbers be provided by those frustrated that the non-outraged among us just don’t get it? ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/79 "2013-01-24T11:56:51Z")
This most likely /defiantly will not become a law here in Ireland – However, its ridicules to even suggest it, by a so called politician. The only social outlet in the rural areas of Ireland is the Pub, there is almost nothing else to do. Sure you can watch TV, go for walks etc…… But meeting people is happening in the pub and meeting people is accompanied by consuming alcohol. Any occasion (wedding, funeral, christening, birthday, dancing, concerts, basically everything….) here is usually accompanied by the (excessive) consumption of alcohol. Counting this consumption of alcohol is usually described as “a couple” – which mean that you only count 2: the first and the last (regardless of how many you had in between). Sure, you could just drink a “soft” drink or what they call here a “mineral” – Coke, water, etc – but to my father/brothers in-law it seam just not right to NOT have a proper drink when you are going to the pub – it’s like going to a peepshow with a blindfold on. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058/80 "2013-01-24T13:19:49Z")
\*\*Doughbag \*\*what I find hilarious about it is the notion that if such a permit existed that holders would all stop at three drinks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-is-bad-unless-you-live-out-in-the-sticks/648058.md?page=5)