# Drunk Driving: When a drunk person sits in the driver's seat? Or, key in the ignition? Or, car turned on? Or, car put in gear to move? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183 "2022-01-21T17:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/241 "2022-01-26T13:58:22Z")
Feel free to try it yourself. Its fun when there’s no driving involved. At 77% accurate its the most scientifically accurate test taken on its own. It is not done alone and neither are the other tests. You do them all to get a more complete picture. As your cite states using all three tests together is 91-95% accurate. Even then its only part of the totality of the circumstances. As part of standard sobriety tests we use HGN only to reinforce what is seen in the walk and turn and one leg stand. But in those rare circumstances when an injury or disability keep someone from being able to do those tests other methods are used. Its just anecdotal I know but I have seen it to be very accurate. I have seen people fail the other tests miserably and have less than conclusive results on HGN and they wound up being barely at or below the legal limit. I have seen people borderline on the other tests fail HGN convincingly. I have never seen anyone pass HGN and be under the limit. Since I was never a huge ticket writer the subjects of my unscientific experiment self-selected by doing things really drunk people do. I didn’t pull over a thousand cars and test every time I thought I caught a whiff of alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/242 "2022-01-26T14:39:50Z")
Aye; the NHTSA cite was to back you up, not debunk you. HGN is clearly the most accurate single test and is very reliable at better than 3 out of 4. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/243 "2022-01-26T15:35:24Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Well, if one can be arrested for just sitting in his car and “sleeping it off”, then it might make more sense to his drunken mind to just try to get home right away because there is a much greater chance time wise that he’d be discovered by some passing cop just sleeping in his car. As law enforcement, I WANT to encourage a drunk driver to sleep rather than drive, and not make him feel that he may as well give it a go. When I used to defend this type of case, I never had one where a defendant was just sleeping it off. It was always “you didn’t see me actually drive the car, so I’m not guilty.” In other words, the cop didn’t actually observe driving, but the did find the guy behind the wheel and in actual physical control. One guy was truly too drunk to successfully get the car moving. I don’t think that should be a defense. ETA: For all the talk about “sleeping it off,” have any of us ever done that, or know anyone who has? It seem mostly theoretical. I have driven drunk more than a few times (not proud of it, don’t anymore) and I never even considered sleeping in my car until I sobered up. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/244 "2022-01-26T15:56:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > ETA: For all the talk about “sleeping it off,” have any of us ever done that, or know anyone who has? It seem mostly theoretical. I have driven drunk more than a few times (not proud of it, don’t anymore) and I never even considered sleeping in my car until I sobered up. I wouldn’t for safety reasons. I believe Michael Jordan’s father was killed because 2 perps found him asleep in his car and decided to rob and kill him. As a female, I face that and also other perils. Also, as I mentioned before, I wouldn’t want to be put into the position of trying to explain myself to law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/245 "2022-01-26T16:20:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Jasmine](#): > > > > Well, if one can be arrested for just sitting in his car and “sleeping it off”, then it might make more sense to his drunken mind to just try to get home right away because there is a much greater chance time wise that he’d be discovered by some passing cop just sleeping in his car. As law enforcement, I WANT to encourage a drunk driver to sleep rather than drive, and not make him feel that he may as well give it a go. > > When I used to defend this type of case, I never had one where a defendant was just sleeping it off. It was always “you didn’t see me actually drive the car, so I’m not guilty.” In other words, the cop didn’t actually observe driving, but the did find the guy behind the wheel and in actual physical control. One guy was truly too drunk to successfully get the car moving. I don’t think that should be a defense. > > ETA: For all the talk about “sleeping it off,” have any of us ever done that, or know anyone who has? It seem mostly theoretical. I have driven drunk more than a few times (not proud of it, don’t anymore) and I never even considered sleeping in my car until I sobered up. I said much the same above. The theoretical "good’ drunk driver is the one who falls asleep in the parking lot of the club and never drove anywhere. I’m sure that happens and on occasion they might get arrested for DUI. In my experience its always someone who drove and then fell asleep somewhere during their journey. Sometimes in a safe spot, sometimes not. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/246 "2022-01-26T20:05:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > any of us ever done that, or know anyone who has? I know somebody who did regularly sleep it off in the back of his van. He was proud of himself for being responsible and considered it a great life hack, until he found out about the “in control” laws. I think he decided to just not drink as much, and he never was arrested. He did buy one of those early consumer breathalyzers that came out 25 or so years ago, so he’d know if he was safe to drive. I have no idea how accurate it was. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/247 "2022-01-26T20:36:28Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Another use for them is while investigating underaged consumption. Whether they’re driving or not the legal limit for under 21 is absolute zero. Is there any penalty for an 18-20 yo declining to blow to your instrument in a non-driving situation? Because it seems the right move would be to politely say no every time. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/248 "2022-09-16T18:14:32Z")
A bit of a zombie thread but there is something new to add. The Ohio supreme court recently ruled that you cannot be arrested for drunk driving unless the vehicle is moving. So, sleeping in your car while drunk is fine (at least in Ohio…and as long as it is not moving…that part seems obvious but there is always that one person who will call me out on it). > **[Ohio Supreme Court: Motorists don’t violate OVI suspension unless vehicle is...](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/09/ohio-supreme-court-motorists-dont-violate-ovi-suspension-unless-vehicle-is-moving.html)** > > The 4-3 ruling involves a case in which a Hamilton County woman previously convicted of an OVI was found by police sleeping in the driver’s seat of a parked car with the engine running. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/249 "2022-09-16T18:29:52Z")
That’s a little different that the typical “being in physical control of a motor vehicle” while under the influence. The Ohio case involved operating the vehicle with a suspended license. “Operate” is the critical word, hence moving was important. In most states, the DUI statute includes “physical control,” which does not require the vehicle to be moving. ### \> RCW [46.61.504](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.504) > ### Physical control of vehicle while under the influence. > > (1) A person is guilty of being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug if the person has actual physical control of a vehicle within this state: > > (a) And the person has, within two hours after being in actual physical control of the vehicle, an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or higher as shown by analysis of the person’s breath or blood made under RCW [46.61.506](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.506); or > > (b) The person has, within two hours after being in actual physical control of a vehicle, a THC concentration of 5.00 or higher as shown by analysis of the person’s blood made under RCW [46.61.506](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.506); or > > (c) While the person is under the influence of or affected by intoxicating liquor or any drug; or > > (d) While the person is under the combined influence of or affected by intoxicating liquor and any drug. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/250 "2022-09-16T18:57:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > > I’m just waiting for someone drinking at home to be arrested for DUI since their keys are in the house with them and their car is in the garage because, you know, they could drive it drunk. > > I don’t think that that is going to happen, do you really think it will, or was that just an emotional plea using ridiculous hyperbole? It’s hyperbole, but I don’t think it’s _ridiculous_ hyperbole. For instance, Texas has pretty draconian public drunkenness laws. While I’m not sure if it has or can happen, it is not much of a stretch to imagine Texas cops coaxing or forcing drunk people out of their homes only to then arrest them for public drunkenness. It’s not much of a stretch from there for them to then tack on a DUI charge on top of that because you had access to the keys and were drunk. Taken _all together_, it adds up to hyperbole, but I don’t think that each individual step is hyperbolic. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/251 "2022-09-17T14:47:40Z")
If cops want to fuck with you, they can fuck with you. They can just make up some bullshit law they accuse you of violating, then claim you resisted arrest. The idea that something like that would happen, with a cop that doesn’t already have it out for you and will find _something_ to mess with you with, is still ridiculous hyperbole. That said, I’ve actually been thinking on this, and think that if you are not in the driver’s seat, and there is no indication that you have driven, then you should probably be allowed to sleep in your car. So, if you are parked in front of the bar that you got drunk in, you’re fine, if you are down the road a bit from that bar, not so much. Then you end up going up against laws and ordinances about sleeping in your car at all, but those are mostly there to be able to keep the homeless away, and have nothing to do with safe driving, so I’d be happy to do away with those as well. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/252 "2022-09-17T15:22:42Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > Another use for them is while investigating underaged consumption. Whether they’re driving or not the legal limit for under 21 is absolute zero. > > Is there any penalty for an 18-20 yo declining to blow to your instrument in a non-driving situation? Because it seems the right move would be to politely say no every time. The right move is not to admit to drinking and to not take a field sobriety test. At least in my state you don’t have to take one and if you’ve had anything to drink you’d be an idiot to take one. Don’t even get out of the car unless ordered to. The FST is not for you to prove you are alright to drive it’s to give me cause to arrest you. It does not benefit you in the least. I am not a lawyer, this is just my opinion not legal advice. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/253 "2022-09-17T16:05:58Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Don’t even get out of the car unless ordered to. Are there any circumstances where a suspected DUI won’t be ordered out of the car? As I understand it, most places invoke a statutory drivers’ license suspension (I think 6 months is typical) for declining to take a FST. It’s a suspension of privilege that I’d call a penalty. But I was referring to a non-driving scenario like, say, a college party. It seems there is no penalty at all for similarly declining a test. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/254 "2022-09-17T16:30:41Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > That’s a little different that the typical “being in physical control of a motor vehicle” while under the influence. The Ohio case involved operating the vehicle with a suspended license. “Operate” is the critical word, hence moving was important. > > In most states, the DUI statute includes “physical control,” which does not require the vehicle to be moving. > > ### \> RCW [46.61.504](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.504) > > > ### Physical control of vehicle while under the influence. > > > > (1) A person is guilty of being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug if the person has actual physical control of a vehicle within this state: > > > > (a) And the person has, within two hours after being in actual physical control of the vehicle, an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or higher as shown by analysis of the person’s breath or blood made under RCW [46.61.506](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.506); or > > > > (b) The person has, within two hours after being in actual physical control of a vehicle, a THC concentration of 5.00 or higher as shown by analysis of the person’s blood made under RCW [46.61.506](http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.506); or > > > > (c) While the person is under the influence of or affected by intoxicating liquor or any drug; or > > > > (d) While the person is under the combined influence of or affected by intoxicating liquor and any drug. Right. This caselaw does not change how DWIs are seen by the court at all. Regardless of the actual wording every state I’m aware of has an expanded definition of operation with regards to DWI. I don’t see this case changing that it only clarifies that driving while suspended (with a previous DWI) is in line with other statutes. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If cops want to fuck with you, they can fuck with you. They can just make up some bullshit law they accuse you of violating, then claim you resisted arrest. > > The idea that something like that would happen, with a cop that doesn’t already have it out for you and will find _something_ to mess with you with, is still ridiculous hyperbole. > > That said, I’ve actually been thinking on this, and think that if you are not in the driver’s seat, and there is no indication that you have driven, then you should probably be allowed to sleep in your car. So, if you are parked in front of the bar that you got drunk in, you’re fine, if you are down the road a bit from that bar, not so much. > > Then you end up going up against laws and ordinances about sleeping in your car at all, but those are mostly there to be able to keep the homeless away, and have nothing to do with safe driving, so I’d be happy to do away with those as well. It’s a wonder that they even have caselaw when everyone knows the cops can just do anything. All caselaw should be “they can do anything.” ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/255 "2022-09-17T16:44:15Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > Don’t even get out of the car unless ordered to. > > Are there any circumstances where a suspected DUI won’t be ordered out of the car? > > As I understand it, most places invoke a statutory drivers’ license suspension (I think 6 months is typical) for declining to take a FST. It’s a suspension of privilege that I’d call a penalty. But I was referring to a non-driving scenario like, say, a college party. It seems there is no penalty at all for similarly declining a test. Well YMMV depending on the state. It certainly isn’t that way in my state and it’s not that way in others. A field sobriety test is a search and unless you are in custody (as opposed to just being detained) you do not have to consent to a search. Best to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/256 "2022-09-17T17:20:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s a wonder that they even have caselaw when everyone knows the cops can just do anything. All caselaw should be “they can do anything.” Is that supposed to be in reply to my post? If so, you should note the post that I was replying to. If you had done so, you would have realized that a post like yours would be utterly irrelevant to mine. Anyone is fully able to see the context that my post was in, and what I responded to. So, your sarcasm is feckless, and your implications false. That is, unless you intended this to be a reply to @Ludovic and you just messed up the attribution. That happens sometimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183.md?page=12)