# Drunk Driving: When a drunk person sits in the driver's seat? Or, key in the ignition? Or, car turned on? Or, car put in gear to move? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183 "2022-01-21T17:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/161 "2022-01-23T17:29:10Z")
And I think that, given that most people who “sleep if off” are going to get behind the wheel before they are below the legal limit, the “might might crime” of Physical Control is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/162 "2022-01-23T17:38:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not really a middle, more like fringe cases, but sure, some small number of people may be victims of poor planning rather than _no_ planning, but that’s still not the fault of the other people on the road that they put at risk. And yet again, despite your denials, you’re back to the straw man that this is solely a plea for lenience for the drinker. Really, why is this so difficult to grasp? THe problem is with the law creating a perverse incentive to actually drive rather than sleep it off, which is bad for ALL road users, not just the drinker. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@salinqmind1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/163 "2022-01-23T17:42:53Z")
Has it been mentioned above that this was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, where Debra was arrested for sleeping it off in her car after a bit too much chardonnay? (Long Island, sometime in the 90’s is where and when it took place.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/164 "2022-01-23T17:46:06Z")
I would say that someone waking up in the backseat of a car after a bad drunk, panicking that the sun is coming up and people are wondering where they are, is the last person who should be determining whether they are sober enough to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/165 "2022-01-23T18:04:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Are you against open container laws, since it is arresting them for what they _could_ do, rather than what they are doing? If not drunk, then why not. Remember open container also means that opened bottle of Jack in your back seat that you took to a party where you didn’t drink at all. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t see what is so unreasonable about trying to reduce that number. At what cost to rights? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Checkpoints are not detainment, and you are completely able to avoid one without probable cause. They even put them in the news ahead of time, so you know where they will be. Now, if you _evade_ one, where you pull up, see cops, and then pull a u-turn, then I can see why it would look like you have something to hide from the police. They are usually at chokepoints or long stretches with no convenient detours. An is making a legal u-turn when you see one probable cause for them chasing and stopping you? Cops and courts think so. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t think that that is going to happen, do you really think it will, or was that just an emotional plea using ridiculous hyperbole? It was a ridiculous example that shows how assnine the legal justification is for what someone “could” do therefore arrest them for DUI. And it seems to me under the legal definitions used to arrest someone sleeping it off in the back seat, then arresting someone in their house (or technically front poarch) for DUI is justified _and legal_ as well. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/166 "2022-01-23T19:34:22Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > you’re back to the straw man that this is solely a plea for lenience for the drinker. That’s the person that lenience is being asked for. Not sure how that can possibly be a strawman. Who are _you_ asking for lenience for? > [@Riemann](#): > > THe problem is with the law creating a perverse incentive to actually drive rather than sleep it off, which is bad for ALL road users, not just the drinker. No, the problem is that people don’t like a law that inconveniences them. Very few people are going to “sleep it off” until they are sober enough to legally drive. It’s just that they will be driving with a drunken hangover in morning rush hour traffic rather than at night. I’m not having trouble grasping the claim that you keep making that it is safer for the public, I’m disagreeing with it, as I don’t think that it follows from the facts that we have discussed in this thread. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If not drunk, then why not. Then we are just going to have to disagree here. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Remember open container also means that opened bottle of Jack in your back seat that you took to a party where you didn’t drink at all. You probably shouldn’t have that. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > At what cost to rights? Well, at the cost of making people follow the laws as they use their motor vehicle. You don’t have a _right_ to drive, it’s a privilege that you get if you can demonstrate that you can use it responsibly. What you are asking is that we get rid of that responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/167 "2022-01-23T19:34:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you’ve had 12 drinks (which isn’t all that much for a bar excursion), then you should wait 12 hours before driving. If you are driving home the next day, then you are still drunk, unless by “next day” you mean late afternoon the next day. You run into exactly the same problem if you get a taxi home then drive to work the next day. Or if you spend the night at a friends and drive home the next day. Or if you just sit politely on a park bench and then drive home the next day. In all of these situations though, we wait until the still drunk person is actually driving before charging them with anything. It may as well be illegal to be drunk and own a car because there is a very real possibility that it will be driven while over the limit. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > The problem is that the vast majority of people who “sleep it off” in their car don’t do it properly. Sorry that that may catch a small percent who were doing their best to be responsible, but they just couldn’t get their plans straight, but there is a balance between convenience for drinkers and public safety, and I prefer to err on the side of public safety. Don’t they? Are there stats on this? I have no idea if it’s true or not. I doubt you do either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/168 "2022-01-23T19:36:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > They are usually at chokepoints or long stretches with no convenient detours. Sometimes, sure. But they are also announced in the news far ahead of time. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > An is making a legal u-turn when you see one probable cause for them chasing and stopping you? Cops and courts think so. I’d agree. What reason did you have to evade the checkpoint? > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > It was a ridiculous example that shows how assnine the legal justification is for what someone “could” do therefore arrest them for DUI. So it was emotional pleading using ridiculous hyperbole, not a serious argument, got it. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/169 "2022-01-23T19:41:44Z")
My thoughts too. If someone passed out in their car at closing time (say 2:00) from drinking on Saturday night and the sun came up at 6 or 7 its highly likely they would feel safe to drive off but still be drunk. No cite but I’ve read in the papers back in the day of people getting killed on their way to church by early morning drunks driving home. Stories like this always get brought up when ever people defend drunks doing anything. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/170 "2022-01-23T19:41:50Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > You run into exactly the same problem if you get a taxi home then drive to work the next day. Or if you spend the night at a friends and drive home the next day. Or if you just sit politely on a park bench and then drive home the next day. Sure, if you don’t plan well, then you may still be drunk the next day when you are supposed to go to work. What you do is you text your boss and tell them that you’ve been throwing up since 3AM, they’ll know what’s up. If your job involves operating heavy machinery, or working with live animals, or anything else that requires attention to detail, fine coordination, and has a decent chance of harm or damage, then you probably shouldn’t go in. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > In all of these situations though, we wait until the still drunk person is actually driving before charging them with anything. Well, no, we would wait until they have taken control of the car before charging them with anything. We don’t have to wait for them to actually drive. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > It may as well be illegal to be drunk and own a car because there is a very real possibility that it will be driven while over the limit. No, it may not be as well illegal. That’s ridiculous hyperbole and emotional pleading, not a rational argument. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Don’t they? Are there stats on this? I have no idea if it’s true or not. I doubt you do either. I know that people who “sleep it off” in their car are not still there in the late afternoon, which is how long they would have to wait in order to be sober. We do have two people involved in law enforcement that have asserted that it is fairly common for people to “sleep it off”, and then start driving later when they feel more sober, but before they actually are. Are there studies and stats? I don’t know of any specifically, but you are in the position of needing to prove that most people sleep in their cars for 12 to 18 hours behind the bar before driving off in order to make your point. Can you do that? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/171 "2022-01-23T19:43:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sometimes, sure. But they are also announced in the news far ahead of time. I went through one that was on a highway to my home. Literally 10 mile detour to go around. So even if I knew about it what could I do? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/172 "2022-01-23T19:43:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So it was emotional pleading using ridiculous hyperbole, not a serious argument, got it. And that is a misquoting of what I said. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/173 "2022-01-23T19:46:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I went through one that was on a highway to my home. Literally 10 mile detour to go around. So even if I knew about it what could I do? Well, you drive through the check point. Say hi to the cops, and go on your way. Or are you asking what you could do if you were drunk? > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And that is a misquoting of what I said. No, that was a quoting of what you said. It was ridiculous hyperbole and emotional pleading, I guess with a decent dash of slippery slope thrown in for good measure. How about instead of complaining about what the law isn’t actually doing but you imagine that it may, in some bizarro world of your imagination, you concentrate on what the law _actually_ is? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/174 "2022-01-23T19:47:13Z")
Sleeping it off in a car does not give you enough time to actually sober up. It only gives you enough time to sober up enough to drive drunk. If you have not been out on a bender, went home and slept for 6 or 8 hours and then woke up still slightly drunk, your life lacks the full experience of alcohol. A few hours dozing in the back seat is somewhat better than just driving away, but you are still likely to be very drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/175 "2022-01-23T19:47:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, at the cost of making people follow the laws as they use their motor vehicle. You don’t have a _right_ to drive, it’s a privilege that you get if you can demonstrate that you can use it responsibly. > > What you are asking is that we get rid of that responsibility. **SITTING** in a car, drunk or sober without being arrested is not the same as driving. That’s my point. No one is advocating for allowing drunk driving … as in **driving** not sitting there. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/176 "2022-01-23T19:48:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sure, if you don’t plan well, then you may still be drunk the next day when you are supposed to go to work. What you do is you text your boss and tell them that you’ve been throwing up since 3AM, they’ll know what’s up. > > If your job involves operating heavy machinery, or working with live animals, or anything else that requires attention to detail, fine coordination, and has a decent chance of harm or damage, then you probably shouldn’t go in. Nicely misses the point. It’s nothing to do with the job or whatever. The point is simply that driving drunk is driving drunk and it can be done after sleeping in the back of the car, sleeping at a friend’s house, sleeping at your own house, etc etc. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, no, we would wait until they have taken control of the car before charging them with anything. We don’t have to wait for them to actually drive. How is being in the backseat of the car with keys in my pocket in control of the car but sitting in my friends house with the keys in my pocket NOT in control of the car? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/177 "2022-01-23T19:50:38Z")
Okay, how’s this sound. Cop comes by, sees you sleeping. Rousts you out of your backseat, and gives a breathalyzer. They calculate how long it will be before you are are under the legal limit, and tell you that you will be arrested for a DUI if you move your car before then? Will you wait until 6 in the evening the next day before you get behind the wheel? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/178 "2022-01-23T19:51:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You probably shouldn’t have that. Why not. It is true. You could be stone-cold sober with an unsealed bottle of alcohol in back and be arrested for open container. In fact, if you have a window that opens in the back of your pickup truck cab and an unsealed bottle of alcohol in the bed, that can get you arrested for open container (at least in California) That seems wrong because you could have (but weren’t) drinking. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/179 "2022-01-23T19:53:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I know that people who “sleep it off” in their car are not still there in the late afternoon, which is how long they would have to wait in order to be sober. Well that depends on how much they’ve had to drink doesn’t it? 12 drinks might take 12 hours. Three or four drinks might just need an hour of sitting in the car browsing the internet on the iPad. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > We do have two people involved in law enforcement that have asserted that it is fairly common for people to “sleep it off”, and then start driving later when they feel more sober, but before they actually are. Law enforcement officers are subject to a massive selection bias. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183/180 "2022-01-23T19:54:50Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Nicely misses the point. It’s nothing to do with the job or whatever. You are the one that brought up that if you are on a bender, then you will not be sober enough to drive to work the next day. It is a tangent, but it’s one that you started down. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The point is simply that driving drunk is driving drunk and it can be done after sleeping in the back of the car, sleeping at a friend’s house, sleeping at your own house, etc etc. I don’t get the point you are trying to make here. Are there times when driving drunk is acceptable? If so, I disagree. If not, then I really don’t understand where you are going with this. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > How is being in the backseat of the car with keys in my pocket in control of the car but sitting in my friends house with the keys in my pocket NOT in control of the car? In one, you are right there. You have only a few feet to move to now be driving. Back seats are not comfortable, and it may be cold, and you may be very incentivized to get home to a nice warm comfortable bed, even if you are not yet ready to drive. If you are at your friends, then that is a completely different situation in pretty much every conceivable way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving-when-a-drunk-person-sits-in-the-drivers-seat-or-key-in-the-ignition-or-car-turned-on-or-car-put-in-gear-to-move/958183.md?page=10)