# Drunk Driving **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319 "2011-01-12T06:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/101 "2011-01-13T12:48:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If I can jailbreak my iPhone and steal movies online, it would probably be very easy to download a hack that would make the BAC detector useless. And in these modern hectic days of fast food, answering machines and one-night stands, as soon as one person discovers how to beat the system, the method gets spread across the internet in days or hours. A technological arms race with self-centered drunks will ensue, with benefits that escape me. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/102 "2011-01-13T16:10:53Z")
> [@martin34](#): > > The system sets off an SOS to the local 911 service. Cops don’t have a problem escorting people to the hospital. Yes, because the police have nothing better to do than “escort [drunks] to the hospital” every time one of these devices is tampered with or reports due to malfunction. How many false positives is this device going to create, and at what cost? I’ve I’m wearing a particularly aromatic cologne, or have just rinsed with mouthwash is it going to prohibit me from driving? This is a poorly thought out proposal, and the responses in favor of it in this thread have only reinforced that position. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/103 "2011-01-13T17:03:13Z")
Heck, I’d be waiting for the irony moment of a cop who arrests a drunk driver but can’t start his cruiser while the drunk is in the back seat, belching beer and whiskey fumes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/104 "2011-01-13T17:52:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If I can jailbreak my iPhone and steal movies online, it would probably be very easy to download a hack that would make the BAC detector useless. Your iPhone is designed for interconnectivity with other devices, and hence accepts inputs which allow you to jailbreak it. There’s no reason a BAC detector needs to accept external inputs (other than, say, breath). I suppose you could install a mod chip or something, but it’s not hard to design a anti-tamper system. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/105 "2011-01-13T17:59:44Z")
Fair point. (For that matter I am surprised nobody has jumped on me for saying “stealing” movies, which is not a point I’m going to debate here.) Still, I don’t think this would be the ironclad solution the OP proposed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/106 "2011-01-13T18:02:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There’s no reason a BAC detector needs to accept external inputs (other than, say, breath). Ah, but _whose_ breath? The driver? The sober passenger next to the drunk driver? The drunk passenger next to the sober driver? Fuck it, just automate the cars. We’re gonna need the tech anyway as the baby boomers enter their seventies and being their senile, half-blind magic carpet rides through shopping malls and bus stops. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/107 "2011-01-13T18:06:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ah, but _whose_ breath? The driver? The sober passenger next to the drunk driver? The drunk passenger next to the sober driver? _shrug_ Add a thumbprint scanner to the BAC meter or something. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/108 "2011-01-13T18:11:29Z")
I wonder if a pressurized can of air sprayed into the tube would fool it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/109 "2011-01-13T18:19:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _shrug_ Add a thumbprint scanner to the BAC meter or something. Ah, but _whose_ thumb…? My point being that five minutes after these things are installed, somebody somewhere will be looking for ways to bypass them, and not necessarily because they want to keep (or can’t summon the will to resist) driving drunk - as I’d assume of somebody with 4 DUIs on his record - but because it’s a challenge. Because it’s there. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/110 "2011-01-13T18:21:49Z")
This is so fucking dumb. Now we’re creating a cottage industry of fingerprint scanners, anti-anti-breathalyzer countermeasure designers, bla bla bla just because some people can’t help themselves? Look, cars are mechanical devices. there is just no way that you won’t be able to bypass, permanently, a breathalyzer interlock device because, at the end of the day, it has to be connected to some part of the ignition system. worst comes to worst, that entire ignition system can be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/111 "2011-01-13T18:31:03Z")
If you’re going to have a court order ensuring that a drunk driver’s car has to have a breath-testing ignition interlock, it’s probably not a particularly big deal to make the driver appear at a police station (or wherever) for a monthly inspection. As far as whose thumb: the drunk driver’s. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/112 "2011-01-13T18:31:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The R&D part is a better drug, administered by a pump put under the skin, so the convicted can’t avoid taking the drug. . It would probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop, or more, if it went that far. But the point I was trying to emphasize was this part: > [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think they’re very effective unless the person wants to quit drinking. [**Qadgop the Mercotan** had this to say about it:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11379011#post11379011) > [@Antabuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antabuse/504329/4): > > It’s not used very often anymore because it’s not that effective. > > It can be a useful adjunct to other therapy for a highly-motivated patient who is willing to run the risks of consuming alcohol (accidentally or on purpose) while on it, but its success is pretty dismal when court- or employer-mandated for a problem drinker who really doesn’t want to stop. > > I remember visiting one county courthouse where the health clinic there dosed alcoholics with their daily liquid dose of antabuse. The steps of the courthouse were discolored yellow where all the clients had spit out the stuff as soon as they got out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/113 "2011-01-13T18:36:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you’re going to have a court order ensuring that a drunk driver’s car has to have a breath-testing ignition interlock, it’s probably not a particularly big deal to make the driver appear at a police station (or wherever) for a monthly inspection. > > As far as whose thumb: the drunk driver’s. Obviously. except we’re no longer talking about ignition interlocks for only the convicted. we’re talking about them for everyone as a baseline. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/114 "2011-01-13T18:39:20Z")
I’m not. I think _that’s_ a really shitty idea. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/115 "2011-01-13T18:51:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As far as whose thumb: the drunk driver’s. Obviously. How will the machine know it’s not the thumb of the driver’s kid, who was quietly playing his PSP in the back seat while the old man got loaded at Frank’s? Will the thumbprint scanner compare the print just to the person with a DUI conviction, or will it need some kind of wireless database access to check all such convictions, and maybe the general DMV database to make sure the person trying to start to car is legally authorized to drive it? If a drunk driver manages to trick the breathalyzer, what keeps him from pressing his index finger to the scanner, letting the machine conclude “well, I’m not getting an alcohol reading, and that’s not Dave-the-Drunk’s thumbprint, so somebody other than Dave is driving the car, so… okay, let’s go.” Personally, I’m okay with a geometric scale of punishment. Minor fine for first offense. Major fine for second. Mandatory jail time for third. Mandatory prison time for fourth… and full public disclosure of all details and posting the convict’s name and picture to a public-access database that will alert a bartender if the convict tries using a credit or debit card. Heck, why not put the fancy technology at the relatively small number of bars, rather than in millions of cars? Wanna buy a drink? Thumbprint, please… Oh, you’ve got two DUIs? If I serve you and you get a third tonight, I’ll be fined, so take the ginger ale or get the fuck out. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/116 "2011-01-13T18:57:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, why not put the fancy technology at the relatively small number of bars, rather than in millions of cars? Wanna buy a drink? Thumbprint, please… Oh, you’ve got two DUIs? If I serve you and you get a third tonight, I’ll be fined, so take the ginger ale or get the fuck out. Good idea as far as it goes; the major problem being that people aren’t restricted to getting alcohol at bars. Still, I think it would help. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/117 "2011-01-14T01:04:41Z")
You are right that the hardcore drunks will find a way around it. Where it would be helpful is with the guy who has a few but figures he can handle it, or the girl who knows she shouldn’t be driving but really wants to get home that night. If they saw their BAC right in front of them, it might be enough to change their minds. I’m not saying this whole thing is a good proposal, but just because some can circumvent it doesn’t make it worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/118 "2011-01-14T01:30:42Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You are right that the hardcore drunks will find a way around it. Where it would be helpful is with the guy who has a few but figures he can handle it, or the girl who knows she shouldn’t be driving but really wants to get home that night. If they saw their BAC right in front of them, it might be enough to change their minds. It is has been evidenced even in this thread that perfectly sober people (I’m giving the benefit of the doubt) believe that even a blood alcohol level at the threshold at which the vast majority of the population shows a measurable level of impairment is not a cause to defer from operating a motor vehicle. What makes you think that someone who is intoxicated and subject to less than rational judgment processes is going to take heed of an elevated BAC? The average person can process about 0.02-0.03% BAC per hour; that means that you can have 1 to 1.5 drinks (a 4oz glass of wine, 12 oz. 5% beer, or a 1 oz shot of 80 proof alcohol) per hour and maintain a constant BAC. So if you’ve been at the bar for three hours and had four beers you’re probably good (unless you lack the enzyme to break down alcohol). If you’ve been at the bar for an hour and and four or five drinks, you’re very likely not good to drive. If you’ve lost count of how much you’ve had to drink, how much time is passed, or how many fingers the officer in front of you is holding up, then you should call a cab or find a non-vomited covered sofa to crash on for the night. It all goes back to Rule #1: Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/119 "2011-01-14T03:31:39Z")
I’m not coming down on any side of this, but I just want to point out that “people will get around it” is a poorly reasoned excuse to not make a law. It could be applied to virtually every law, code, and regulation in existence. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319/120 "2011-01-14T10:02:27Z")
Statistics can be made to say anything. If you were sober, talking on your cell phone and drove over the sidewalk and killed a drunk pedestrian sitting on a bench, it is officially an “alcohol-related” fatality. If you were the designated driver, fell asleep at the wheel and hit a tree, your drunk passenger made that an “alcohol related” death. It is a number that someone pulls out of their ass in order to fulfill an agenda and garner contributions. [http://www.motorists.org/dui/myths](http://www.motorists.org/dui/myths) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-driving/567319.md?page=7)