Drunk Driving

[Sateryn76]

@Chessic_Sense

I thnk they’re plenty high enough already. What I don’t get is why we have a binary line- you’re either over the limit or you’re not. Why can’t we have, like, four tiers? You were buzzed, you were drunk, you were smashed…or you were sober. Then we’d have penalties that vary according to the tier- fines, suspensions, then jail time.

If we do it for murder, rape, and robbery, why can’t we have “DUI in the second degree”?

The problem is that so many people who get cracked for DUI end up pleading down to a lesser, non-DUI offense with a penalty that does nothing. In our county, they usually end up having to take a Alcohol/Drug class, pay a fine of, like, $500, and stay out of trouble for 6 months. This is for repeat offenders.

My father is an alcoholic, and has racked up something like 15 DUIs in his life. He still has a license and has never served jail time. What he has is a lawyer who has a good relationship with the prosecutor, and he gets a reckless driving conviction.

And, if we can have some good science that proves out your idea of “sober, buzzed, smashed” I would support some kind of tier-based system. But I don’t think the science holds out - but I could be wrong.

[Boyo_Jim]

So the OP has gone from suggesting that everyone get anti-alcohol technology in their cars, to claiming that drunk driving penalties are unconstitutional laws passed by fascists. In that case we certainly don’t need the technology.

[Marley23]

@Boyo_Jim

So the OP has gone from suggesting that everyone get anti-alcohol technology in their cars, to claiming that drunk driving penalties are unconstitutional laws passed by fascists.

That was rulesareweights, not the OP.

[Boyo_Jim]

My mistake, I apologize to the OP. The two posts seemed so much in character with each other.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Sateryn76

The problem is that so many people who get cracked for DUI end up pleading down to a lesser, non-DUI offense with a penalty that does nothing. In our county, they usually end up having to take a Alcohol/Drug class, pay a fine of, like, $500, and stay out of trouble for 6 months. This is for repeat offenders.

My father is an alcoholic, and has racked up something like 15 DUIs in his life. He still has a license and has never served jail time. What he has is a lawyer who has a good relationship with the prosecutor, and he gets a reckless driving conviction.

If you have a tier system, then they’d have to plead down from DUI 1st to DUI 3rd and be happy that they got that. Eventually, you’ll have judges going “You want to go from DUI 1st to reckless driving? That’s four levels down! You’ve got some brass balls, buddy.” As it is now, it’s only pleading down one level.

And for those with “good relationships”, etc, that’s just straight-up corruption. That’s a problem with the justice system, not drunk driving. No law can fix that.

@Sateryn76

And, if we can have some good science that proves out your idea of “sober, buzzed, smashed” I would support some kind of tier-based system. But I don’t think the science holds out - but I could be wrong.

What science do you need? If you get stopped with a .08 alcohol level, you get one charge. If it’s .12, you get a different one. If it’s .19, it’s a third. I just made those numbers up off the top of my head, but what else would you need/want? Proof that .19% is more dangerous than .10%? I can’t imagine that that’d be hard to come up with.

[Sateryn76]

@Chessic_Sense

What science do you need? If you get stopped with a .08 alcohol level, you get one charge. If it’s .12, you get a different one. If it’s .19, it’s a third. I just made those numbers up off the top of my head, but what else would you need/want? Proof that .19% is more dangerous than .10%? I can’t imagine that that’d be hard to come up with.

I think it’s more complex than that. The dangers of drunk driving aren’t just that you’ve been drinking. It involves driving skills like reaction time, vision impairment, distracted-ness, etc.

It may be that three drinks has a small effect on reaction time, but that it has a large effect on distracted driving. So, three drinks is okay if people stop fast in front of you, but bad if a really good song comes on the radio that makes you think about that summer in college, and that one girl, and…BAM!

Drinking is a complex bio-chemical process, and of course no two people are effected in the same way. I think it would be very hard to enforce and legislate tiered DD laws.

[Astroboy14]

@martin34

p.s.
Keep the machines calibrated to allow the legal limit.

Their needs to be an emergency bypass system for emergencies.

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[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@martin34

Ok Peeps…here I go again,

Another half drunken/half baked idea.

Well, at least your post contained one foothill of truth among the mountains of ignorance and obtuseness.

Stranger

[Chessic_Sense]

@Sateryn76

I think it’s more complex than that. The dangers of drunk driving aren’t just that you’ve been drinking. It involves driving skills like reaction time, vision impairment, distracted-ness, etc.

It may be that three drinks has a small effect on reaction time, but that it has a large effect on distracted driving. So, three drinks is okay if people stop fast in front of you, but bad if a really good song comes on the radio that makes you think about that summer in college, and that one girl, and…BAM!

Drinking is a complex bio-chemical process, and of course no two people are effected in the same way. I think it would be very hard to enforce and legislate tiered DD laws.

That’s the same problem you have now, though, not problems with a tiered sytem. Right now, it’s .08% (at least in PA and VA). You’re either over that or you’re not. Drunk or you’re not. There’s no “Well, his attention is weak but his reflexes are still top notch” in the current system.

So the way I see it, we already have a tier sytem- with two tiers. How would having more, and enforcing them the same way, present new problems?

@Astroboy14

(The Picture)

What is that supposed to be? A facepalm, maybe?

[Boyo_Jim]

@martin34

…Their needs to be an emergency bypass system for emergencies…

Sometimes it is really really important to drive drunk.

[Sateryn76]

@Chessic_Sense

That’s the same problem you have now, though, not problems with a tiered sytem. Right now, it’s .08% (at least in PA and VA). You’re either over that or you’re not. Drunk or you’re not. There’s no “Well, his attention is weak but his reflexes are still top notch” in the current system.

So the way I see it, we already have a tier sytem- with two tiers. How would having more, and enforcing them the same way, present new problems?

For what purpose?

[Tastes_of_Chocolate]

@rulesareweights

My freind got stopped on a dirt road 100 miles from anyone, and was forced to pay thousands of dollars and ripped of his right to travel. No one was injured, yet the mafia superfascists stole his life savings in court fines and attached a tracking device to his leg. no one was injured when he was travelling home that night, but he was extorted and forced to pay.

1. Obviously, there was someone within 100 miles of him, or there would not have been anyone to stop him.

2. Your friend was not “ripped of his right to travel”. He is denied the privilege of drving himself. He can still walk, ride a horse or hitch a ride with someone else. He’s not allowed to drive a car and endanger others.

[RickJay]

@Sateryn76

I think it’s more complex than that. The dangers of drunk driving aren’t just that you’ve been drinking. It involves driving skills like reaction time, vision impairment, distracted-ness, etc.

It may be that three drinks has a small effect on reaction time, but that it has a large effect on distracted driving. So, three drinks is okay if people stop fast in front of you, but bad if a really good song comes on the radio that makes you think about that summer in college, and that one girl, and…BAM!

Drinking is a complex bio-chemical process, and of course no two people are effected in the same way. I think it would be very hard to enforce and legislate tiered DD laws.

I don’t understand how it would be harder than the current system, which is that .08 means you’re guilty. All that was suggested was that different levels entail different penalties.

Indeed, Ontario is experimenting with this right now. If you are below .08 but above .05, you get a temporary suspension.

[Kobal2]

@Chessic_Sense

What is that supposed to be? A facepalm, maybe?

http://www.acr0nym.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1121&g2_serialNumber=1

[Astroboy14]

@Chessic_Sense

What is that supposed to be? A facepalm, maybe?

Yes. A Capt. Picard facepalm specifically…

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

the OP has a good heart.

Some of the holier than thou comments directed at the OP disturb me.

People are getting hurt who drink and drive but don’t get drunk. It isn’t about getting drunk anymore. If you get caught over .05 in my jurisdiction in some roadside random stop, you will lose your license for a period of time and a huge fine. Repeated offenses will destroy you unless you are independantly wealthy. You have no recourse. The courts aren’t even involved in my jurisdiction. Yet, if you blow over .08 it a criminal conviction .

People are making money out of this. Remedial courses involving 12 hours of instruction cost over a thousand dollars. Political friends of the government are getting these lucrative contract.Tow truck companies are mandated to charge twice their normal rate if the cop determines you shouldn’t drive. You don’t even have to blow .05 for that. Replacing your licence when you are eligible again will cost you twice as much than if you had simply lost it. Everbody feeds off the unfortunate.

All too often it is older people getting nabbed for these “roadside suspensions”. They’ve been drinking and driving resposibly for years without incident.It only takes two drinks to get you to .05. I go to parties where responsible people drink. Over the course of the evening many will have had 4 drinks that they’ve nursed through. Do they know they are over .05? There is no sure way to tell. It is a gamble. I do know that older people do not drink like they used to. For many years they been controlling their drinking and driving to hopefully meet .08, 4 drinks or so it was commonly assumed. Well, the provincial government decided that the cut off should be nearly half that, and they didn’t tell anybody. For several years I’ve been telling people that they need to beat .05, forget about .08. They never heard of the change. People were making money off the penalties.
The program might be working, but a lot of people are getting hurt. I can’t see the logic in driving to a pub. I can’t see why parking spaces are mandated for pubs.

For my part, I’d like to give everyone a personal breathalizer for Christmas so that they can have some control. Yes, that would cost the government wouldn’t it That wouldn’t infringe on anyones freedoms would it. Why can’t we have that ?

[Omar_Little]

Anybody that has had 4 dui’s and is still worried about themselves drinking and driving that they believe there should just be a device on the car to save me and others from myself would figure out how to bypass it as well.

Why not come up with a medical solution, that somehow causes your body to become highly allergic to alcohol. If you consume alcohol your body goes into toxic shock and without an injection from something like an epi pen that neutralizes the alcohol in your bloodstream, you would die. Hey we put a man on the moon. Besides, that would put more responsibility on you and less of a burden on the rest of us.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Wilbo523

Anybody that has had 4 dui’s and is still worried about themselves drinking and driving that they believe there should just be a device on the car to save me and others from myself would figure out how to bypass it as well.

Wilbo may have had 4 dui’s but does that mean he was an out of control drunk willing to drive drunk at any cost ?

Perhaps. Not neccessarily

The problem as I see, and I might be wrong, is that you can have a completely sober driver, but he will be unable to drive someone who has been drinking. The drinking passenger will lock the device as well won’t he?

[Omar_Little]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

Wilbo*, he* [sic] may have had 4 dui’s but does that mean he was an out of control drunk willing to drive drunk at any cost ?

How many DUI’s must one have before you consider the fact that they will drive drunk without regard to the consequences? 5, 10, 15? I believe that two is probably evidence that they don’t really give a damn.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

One DUI is an irresponsible oversight. Two DUIs is a problem in understanding the potential consequences of your actions. Four DUIs is a chronic problem of severely impaired judgment, both before and while drinking.

Stranger