# Drunk Like Me **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854 "2006-01-27T16:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![outside\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@outside\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outside_artist)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/1 "2006-01-27T16:20:02Z")
With all of the flak that James Frey is getting about his book, what about writers in the past whose work was, IMO, a total hoax? I recently re read John Griffin’s _Black Like Me_ and even though I had read it back in the 60s and believed every word of it, I cannot think how nobody questioned the veracity of this author’s ridiculous claim that he had actually made himself black somehow, and passed in that role until his kidneys began to squawk from the effects of the ‘mixture that he ingested’ to darken his skin color. Perhaps more cynical now as an adult reading this book, the whole endeavor sounds so implausible that I wonder how I, and an entire nation, was suckered in by something so unlikely. The subject was so timely back when it was written that the world was ripe for just that kind of a story, but I am surprised that no-one ever thought to come forward and question it. Griffin made a lot of ough on that book, too, and I’m not saying he wasn’t a brilliant guy for thinking the whole thing up, but jeez, it just seems unfair, is all. Anyone think of any more similar potential hoaxes? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/2 "2006-01-27T16:55:01Z")
[Michael Bellesiles](http://www.emorywheel.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/10/25/3db9bc0a08df2). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/3 "2006-01-27T16:56:02Z")
> [@Not a Well Woman](#): > > With all of the flak that James Frey is getting about his book, what about writers in the past whose work was, IMO, a total hoax? I recently re read John Griffin’s _Black Like Me_ and even though I had read it back in the 60s and believed every word of it, I cannot think how nobody questioned the veracity of this author’s ridiculous claim that he had actually made himself black somehow, and passed in that role until his kidneys began to squawk from the effects of the ‘mixture that he ingested’ to darken his skin color. > Perhaps more cynical now as an adult reading this book, the whole endeavor sounds so implausible that I wonder how I, and an entire nation, was suckered in by something so unlikely. As far as I know, “Black Like Me” was a true story, and Griffin actually did darken his skin and pass as a black man. Do you have an evidence that it wasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/4 "2006-01-27T17:06:18Z")
Although a few people continue to question John Griffin’s book, I don’t know of anyone in more than four decades that has ever come up with any real evidence against it. [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/griffin.asp) has an account of the skin-darkening process. The bit about it causing damage to his kidneys or contributing to his death is wrong in every way. Of course, nobody can verify that every incident in his book actually happened the way he said it did. This is true for all memoirs and most other nonfiction. Rather than libel the man, however, provide some evidence that he didn’t do what he said he did. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/5 "2006-01-27T17:07:10Z")
I find your opinion about John Griffin amazing. Here’s a little info from [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/griffin.asp) about him, that includes stuff about the treatment and his doctor. Looks like there’s a book about the book, referenced on Snopes, that may interest you. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/6 "2006-01-27T17:10:27Z")
I’m not sure if it counts as a _hoax_, as such, but many organizations were quite happy to, shall we say, under-emphasise, the fictional nature of _[Go Ask Alice](http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/askalice.asp)_. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/7 "2006-01-27T17:11:48Z")
I remember photos of him in the book (at least I think it was in the book - it might have been in a _Look_ or _Life_ magazine story of the time) as a black man and he looked believable. ---
**Author:** ![outside\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@outside\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outside_artist)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/8 "2006-01-27T17:32:46Z")
First of all, I didn’t think he passed for black well AT ALL. His features were just so caucasian. Also, I cannot believe that no one at any time ever wanted to repeat the idea decades later, which would have been a very interesting experiment indeed. If someone had been black at a Hendrix concert, for example, he would have been treated much differently from Griffin’s character. The fellow sounds like a saint according to the Snopes info, but I just don’t know. Greater secrets have been kept. I hope he DID really do it. It was such a cool idea and a very timely one (another reason for its concept and huge public response). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/9 "2006-01-27T18:41:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, I cannot believe that no one at any time ever wanted to repeat the idea decades later, which would have been a very interesting experiment indeed. It has been repeated – you just didn’t hear about it. I recall the case of a female reporter who did much the same thing, passing for black after skin darkening. I’ve seen both her and Griffiths’ before-and-after photos, and they look pretty convincing. At first I thought that your post was tongue-in-cheek – let’s see what other books we can claim were really faked! But you seem to be taking this seriously. Skepticism is always a good idea, but some things that might at first seem unlikely did indeed happen. Richard Burtonm passed himself off as a born-in-the-Middle East Muslim, and made the _hajj_ to Mecca and Medina without being detected, after all. ---
**Author:** ![outside\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@outside\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outside_artist)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/10 "2006-01-27T18:48:43Z")
I didn’t know about that woman. Who is she and where did this happen? How come every tanning salon across the country isn’t cashing in on this innovative tanning method? Even with side effcts. People will go to great lengths and risk to look as though they have a ‘healthy’ tan. So a professional actor wearing Hollywood inspired makeup passed for something else somewhere? Huge deal. Why is my asking about similar hoaxes not a legitimate question? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/11 "2006-01-27T19:09:32Z")
When we read it in my high school in the mid 70s it was taught to us as if it had been fiction, just a good allegory for the times. I find this discussion quite interesting. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/12 "2006-01-27T19:17:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t know about that woman. Who is she and where did this happen? I don’t recall the woman’s name, and a quick Search didn’t find it. It was quite a few years ago. > [@](#): > > How come every tanning salon across the country isn’t cashing in on this innovative tanning method? Even with side effcts. People will go to great lengths and risk to look as though they have a ‘healthy’ tan. How many requests are there to significantly darken one’s hue? I suspect that the method Griffiths used isn’t entirely without risk, in any case. > [@](#): > > Why is my asking about similar hoaxes not a legitimate question? I never said it wasn’t. Asserting that something didn’t happen without proof, however, will rightly get you a request to back up your assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Eegba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Eegba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eegba)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/13 "2006-01-27T19:33:10Z")
> [@Not a Well Woman](#): > > So a professional actor wearing Hollywood inspired makeup passed for something else somewhere? Huge deal. Not that Richard Burton, [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton) Richard Burton. Far more fascinating person. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/14 "2006-01-27T19:36:54Z")
> [@Eegba](#): > > Not that Richard Burton, [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton) Richard Burton. Far more fascinating person. And a much more dangerous impersonation, as he would have been killed instantly had he been found out. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/15 "2006-01-27T19:54:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Not a Well Woman > So a professional actor wearing Hollywood inspired makeup passed for something else somewhere? Huge deal. > > Not that Richard Burton, this Richard Burton. Far more fascinating person. Jeez – i completely missed that she hadn’t pucked up on that – I thought she was referring to some other post. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/16 "2006-01-27T20:37:55Z")
> [@Not a Well Woman](#): > > Perhaps more cynical now as an adult reading this book, the whole endeavor sounds so implausible that I wonder how I, and an entire nation, was suckered in by something so unlikely. The subject was so timely back when it was written that the world was ripe for just that kind of a story, but I am surprised that no-one ever thought to come forward and question it. Griffin made a lot of ough on that book, too, and I’m not saying he wasn’t a brilliant guy for thinking the whole thing up, but jeez, it just seems unfair, is all. > Anyone think of any more similar potential hoaxes? I also thought you had some evidence that “an entire nation was suckered” by John Griffin. You just asserted that because it sounded implausible? You just asserted that no one investigated his claims in 1961? You can’t just say the author of a memoir is “a brilliant guy for thinking the whole thing up” unless you can find some reason to believe he didn’t tell the truth. Perhaps you should rephrase your question: \*\*Are there any other memoirs I don’t believe for no other reason than my own propensity (for whatever reason) to disbelieve them? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/17 "2006-01-27T22:53:10Z")
> [@Not a Well Woman](#): > > First of all, I didn’t think he passed for black well AT ALL. His features were just so caucasian. Do you have much firsthand experience with people who identify themselves as black? I do, and many of them have very “caucasian” features and rather light skin. It’s quite common. They probably even have more than 50% “caucasian” blood in them, but culturally, ethnically, and politically for all intents and purposes, they are black. And back in 1961, if a person with somewhat dark skin said they were black, noone in the white world would have dreamed of arguing with them. At that time and in our culture who on earth would self-identify as _negro_ if it weren’t so? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/18 "2006-01-27T23:35:13Z")
> [@Not a Well Woman](#): > > First of all, I didn’t think he passed for black well AT ALL. His features were just so caucasian. [This](http://www.wingspress.com/Titles/Black_Like_Me.html) is a photo of Griffen in his black persona. In addition to darkening his skin, he also shaved his head to disguise his hair texture. I really doubt that someone who looked like Griffin in this photo would be questioned if they self-identified as black. As **Qadgop** says, lots of US blacks have “caucasian features.” ---
**Author:** ![outside\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@outside\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outside_artist)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/19 "2006-01-28T00:05:25Z")
Well, I feel like a dummy about the Richard Burton thing, but I am still not sold on the book angle. While it may be true that back then no one would have questioned a man whose skin was black no matter what his features were like, similarly, no one would have questioned the book’s veracity, either. Society was ripe-nay hungry-for juicy antics like Griffin’s, and I still can’t help but think that the whole thing may have been someone’s brillliant scam. Maybe I am just an old cynic, but the whole thing waxes ridiculous to me now. When the woman did as Griffin did, what were the results? Were her experiences different from Griffin’s in any way, was she in the deep south as he was, or was she in a different location altogether? Has anyone read _Mutant Message Down Under_? It was first published as non-fiction, but when it came out in paperback, the category was fiction. It seems that the author tried to palm it off as a mamoir, traveling around and giving talks etc., but then it was found out that she was full of it and that it was just a fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854/20 "2006-01-28T00:10:29Z")
I think it’s safe to say that **Carlos Castenada** was full of it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/drunk-like-me/341854.md?page=2)