# DSL and 2 computers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 28, 2000, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508 "2000-12-28T14:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/21 "2000-12-29T01:39:33Z")
All you need is Ethernet cards in both computers, a crossover cable (or a hub), and “Internet Connection Sharing” (or whatever it’s called) enabled in the machine that has the DSL modem. Windows will do IP masquerading for the second machine. Some things may not work for the indirectly connected machine without a proxy server, though. VPN is another option, although I don’t know if you need additional software components for this. A router is complete overkill for this context. Don’t waste your money on one. ---
**Author:** ![kinoons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kinoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kinoons)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/22 "2000-12-29T01:55:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*All you need is Ethernet cards in both computers, a crossover cable (or a hub), and “Internet Connection Sharing” (or whatever it’s called) enabled in the machine that has the DSL modem. Windows will do IP masquerading for the second machine. Some things may not work for the indirectly connected machine without a proxy server, though. > > VPN is another option, although I don’t know if you need additional software components for this. > > A router is complete overkill for this context. Don’t waste your money on one. \*\* I whole hearted agree – ya dont need to spend $100 on a router when your systems will do it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/23 "2000-12-29T02:11:42Z")
Well, let’s see. For $100 you get expandability for up to 250+ PCs (not practical, but there if you need to go to 4 or 5 PCs), you get all of the routing overhead taken care of in hardware, not software, you get greater speed due to the lower overhead of routing (there have been many articles on the speed difference comparing software versus hardware routing solutions, such as on [http://www.dspreports.com](http://www.dspreports.com)), you get a hardware firewall…I don’t know. It sure seems worth it to me. And **KellyM**? No additional software needed for VPN, although I would not recommend it anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![kinoons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kinoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kinoons)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/24 "2000-12-29T02:18:57Z")
I dunno, maybe I have enough horsepower that I never push my system hard enough to see the difference, but my P4 1.4 GHZ machine does a wonderful job acting as a router. I have not noticed any performance drops (beyone the cut in internet speed when 3 systems are making requests at the same time, but its not enough for me to care.) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/25 "2000-12-29T02:22:40Z")
The product specs for the Linksys Etherfast Router say it combines a router and a switch, but then it goes on to say how blisteringly fast the broadband connection will be to every machine hooked up to the router. This leaves me a little in the dark: Does this work as a switch, and if so, how well? Will I be able to share files around the LAN? Will a networked game run at acceptable speeds? Thanks for the information so far, but I’m quickly finding out how much of a newbie I am in this field. ---
**Author:** ![kinoons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kinoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kinoons)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/26 "2000-12-29T02:26:54Z")
also, as a side note. If you do run win200, have a dynamic partition (only other win2000 machines can read those). the system defaults to the highest security settings. This would keep out 99% out the threats out on the net W/O a firewall. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/27 "2000-12-29T02:55:17Z")
Will the Linksys Etherfast Router work without a DSL connection? Will it work if it is limited to dialup? My ISP is not the best in the world, and the technology out here in eastern Montana is not the most advanced (the outside world views us as hicks with tractors and pickups). ---
**Author:** ![aramis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@aramis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aramis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/28 "2000-12-29T03:14:25Z")
There is apparently a little confusion on the part of some respondents. I hope I can clear it up. The Linksys Cable/DSL router is a hardware device, not a piece of software. It is operating system independent – it will work with any Windows variation, MAC OS, Linux, or just about any other operating system you might want to use. The only software it requires on the client PCs is a Java capable web browser. One useful tip I’ve learned with mine is to leave it powered up all the time. That way, my client PCs are net capable as soon as they boot up. BTW, anybody know what’s happend with the prices? When I got mine (4 port) about six months ago, it was around $75 but seems to have gone up drastically since then. Finally, it’s worth mentioning that use of a device such as the Etherfast router MAY be a violation of your DSL service contract if you use it connect two or more PCs at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/29 "2000-12-29T03:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aramis \* > \*\*Finally, it’s worth mentioning that use of a device such as the Etherfast router MAY be a violation of your DSL service contract if you use it connect two or more PCs at the same time. \*\* It may be, but only if your service provider specifically says they limit the number of PCs. Since the Linksys uses it’s NAT function to only pull down one dynamic IP, the DSL provider 1) would have a **really** hard time determining that is what you are doing, and 2) since it is so easy to cap DSL line throughput, they shouldn’t care anyhow. And I’ve never heard of DSL that limited PCs, only dynamic IP addresses. If they do care about something so incredibly trivial and nit-picky, switch to Cable and tell them to get bent. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/30 "2000-12-29T03:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\*Will the Linksys Etherfast Router work without a DSL connection? Will it work if it is limited to dialup? My ISP is not the best in the world, and the technology out here in eastern Montana is not the most advanced (the outside world views us as hicks with tractors and pickups). \*\* While it is possible someone makes a router/switch that works through dialup, I have not seen one. The Linksys is intended to be used only with DSL/Cable modems. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/31 "2000-12-29T03:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > **Does this work as a switch, and if so, how well?** Yes, and pretty well… > [@](#): > > **Will I be able to share files around the LAN?** Yes. > [@](#): > > **Will a networked game run at acceptable speeds?** It will run on your LAN at however fast your Ethernet cards and cabling and PCs allow it. Thus, pretty damn fast. On mine, I get my full 10 MBit from PC to PC, or 100 MBit between the 2 PCs that have the faster cards. ---
**Author:** ![Skelji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Skelji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skelji)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/32 "2000-12-29T04:16:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aramis \* > BTW, anybody know what’s happend with the prices? When I got mine (4 port) about six months ago, it was around $75 but seems to have gone up drastically since then. Damn. I got mine 3 months ago and paid $149. Yes, another vote for the Linksys here. And like Anthracite says, most ISPs only limit the number of addresses - a cable/dsl router will appear to them as one address. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/33 "2000-12-29T08:54:11Z")
Netgear makes these, too, and I actually like them better than the Linksys ones. I bought the Netgear RT314 for my mom (the RT311 and RT314 are the same except that the 314 has a built in 4-port 10/100 switch (note: switch, not hub)), and it installed and set up extremely easily. The RT314 cost me $139, and it’s all set up with an HTTP interface, without requiring java (it’s all forms-based), which is pretty nice. It’s also got an FTP server built in which allows you to FTP the entire configuration in and out in case you want to back it up somewhere. For nerds, it’s also got telnet and RS-232 interfaces for configuring it. In general, I prefer netgear to linksys, since their stuff feels more “solid” to me. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/34 "2000-12-29T14:28:53Z")
Personally, I would prefer to use a small Linux or FreeBSD machine as a router instead of one of these little boxes; you have so much more freedom with that. But this is a somewhat more expensive solution, to be sure. (It’s also what I do at home: my old Linux box does the routing and address translation for the house intranet, as well as serving as a mail, news, file, and print server.) ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/35 "2000-12-29T15:18:02Z")
tbea925 wrote: > [@](#): > > …and seems to work much better than my DSL service (crappy phone lines)… My DSL service also seems to suffer from Crappy Line Syndrome. The first three months I had it, we had zero rain (North Texas in summer), and it worked great. But in September, we got a lot of rain, and each time it rained my DSL speed would slow to a crawl (from \>80 kbytes/sec to about 5 kbytes/sec). I suspect that this is caused by water getting into my phone line somewhere between my house and the neighborhood phone “box,” but the DSL and phone provider (GTE) doesn’t seem to care to do anything about it. When it happens, I can fix it by cycling the power down my DSL transceiver (DSL “modem”), but depending on the weather it might start misbehaving again. Anyone know what I can do to resolve this? ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/36 "2000-12-29T16:10:26Z")
“Anyone know what I can do to resolve this?” I usually put in a new jack, for a couple bucks & then reset those two wires there at the phone box outside. cuz they get crud. ---
**Author:** ![tbea925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@tbea925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tbea925)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/37 "2000-12-30T02:34:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > All you need is Ethernet cards in both computers, a crossover cable (or a hub), and “Internet Connection Sharing” (or whatever it’s called) enabled in the machine that has the DSL modem. Windows will do IP masquerading for the second machine. Some things may not work for the indirectly connected machine without a proxy server, though. Depends on what you want. If you want any kind of hardware/software between you and the internet, a router or dedicated firewall is your best bet. If your “directly” connected PC is physically in-between the internet and your “indirectly” connected machine, that means you would have to have two NICs in the in-between machine, which can be difficult to administer. I don’t have that much time. If the “directly” connected PC is only logically in-between your PCs and the internet, well, that’s a risk I can’t afford either for an “always-on” connection. While I probably don’t need a full-fledged DMZ, some kind of firewall isolation is a good idea. and “some things not working” is not an option for me. > [@](#): > > VPN is another option, although I don’t know if you need additional software components for this. Ummm…no. VPN does indeed require additional software components (and usually time-dependent key or password randomizers), but is used to gain secure access to a partnered server cluster over a public network. It wouldn’t do anything for general internet access. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/38 "2000-12-30T05:13:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tbea925 \* > **If your “directly” connected PC is physically in-between the internet and your “indirectly” connected machine, that means you would have to have two NICs in the in-between machine, which can be difficult to administer.** Uh, I dunno about you, but in my experience administering two NICs in the same machine is trivial. Maybe that quasi-OS from Redmond has trouble with this, but I haven’t had a whit of trouble with it on my machine. The most complex thing was setting up dhcpd not to listen on eth1. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/39 "2000-12-30T05:38:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*Personally, I would prefer to use a small Linux or FreeBSD machine as a router instead of one of these little boxes; you have so much more freedom with that. But this is a somewhat more expensive solution, to be sure. > \*\* The LinkSys router actually runs a small embedded Linux kernel; of course, you can’t change anything, as it’s all in ROM. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508/40 "2000-12-30T08:33:22Z")
All right, you studs, settle down. Yeah, it’s cool to put two NICs in your linux machine and manually set up your routing and NAT, but look at the original post. This person doesn’t even know what a hub is. Do you really think he wants to bother with all that when the box that does the job is plug-and-play and in the $100-150 range? Try being _helpful_. Fighting ignorance != feeding egos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dsl-and-2-computers/47508.md?page=3)