# Dual citizenship - has anyone here relinquished your US citizenship? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254 "2022-05-28T15:19:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wombattver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@wombattver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wombattver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/21 "2022-05-28T21:15:50Z")
We live in Europe. We pay taxes to the US and our European country, not to Australia because we do not live there. Other countries do not tax their citizens on income earned while residing elsewhere. So folks with US and other passports only pay the country where they live AND the US. ---
**Author:** ![wombattver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@wombattver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wombattver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/22 "2022-05-28T21:17:46Z")
Letting a passport expire does not change the fact that she is still a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/23 "2022-05-28T21:35:30Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I have thought of renouncing, but the possibility (even remote) that we might want to move back deters me. But if Quebec sinks any further into fascism… A proposed law provides that if some random person accuses you of speaking English when you are not entitled to, the police can come to your house without a warrant and seize your phone and your computer. At risk of hijacking the thread, do you have a cite for this nonsense? I’m not fond of Quebec’s language laws, but I’ve seen nothing to support this. If you’re thinking of Bill 96, it only requires new immigrants and refugees to communicate with provincial officials exclusively in French six months after arriving or face a loss of services. Which is a terrible law in a nominally bilingual country, but nothing like what you’re suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/24 "2022-05-28T21:54:42Z")
I was going to suggest to **Hari** that even if the law he’s worried about was passed and did what he said it did, decamping from Quebec to e.g. Ontario would be far less drastic a move than decamping to e.g. Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![wombattver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@wombattver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wombattver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/25 "2022-05-28T21:55:24Z")
We know this is a very serious decision but now is the time to consider it rather than years into the future when she is already paying taxes. It’s not just about the income tax, but potential property purchases as well. My husband bought property in Oz 10 years before we met. He rented it out for many years and then his father lived there for 10 years rent-free. He became a US citizen a few years after we married. He sold the property a few years back; by this time he had owned it for about 20 years. Tax bill from the USA - 80K!!! On a property he bought before he met me, married me, or lived in the US. (Her ability to vote means little when she doesn’t have a US address and in today’s current madness of gerrymandering and redistricting, her vote may not count for much anyway.) Our biggest worry is probably the idea that she could be barred from ever visiting the US again. We do have some family still there, but plenty of people live wonderful lives without ever setting foot in the USA! Sadly, the US doesn’t seem like a desirable place she’d ever want to live at the moment; understandable, but this decision has huge ramifications for her future. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/26 "2022-05-28T21:57:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This does not mean that you are taxed twice on the same income - there are tax treaties with every major country, so you get relief from double taxation. However, it means an immense amount of paperwork filing two returns every year, And don’t forget that the IRS wants to pry into your foreign bank account which is why many banks will refuse to allow aUS citizen to have an account with them. ETA: What Hari\_Seldon said … kinda. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/27 "2022-05-28T21:58:43Z")
> [@wombattver](#): > > We know this is a very serious decision but now is the time to consider it rather than years into the future when she is already paying taxes. Yup. > [@wombattver](#): > > Our biggest worry is probably the idea that she could be barred from ever visiting the US again. And again, you are absolutely correct that this is your main concern. That’s why I think it’s worth an extensive discussion with an experienced U.S. immigration attorney. Someone on the Board works in this field and could probably make a recommendation, but I can’t remember who it is. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/28 "2022-05-28T22:00:40Z")
@Eva_Luna ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/29 "2022-05-28T22:00:59Z")
A U S citizen who has a vote! It’s an inalienable right? Yes? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/30 "2022-05-28T22:01:18Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Someone on the Board works in this field and could probably make a recommendation, but I can’t remember who it is. I _think_ it’s @Dangerosa. With luck she’ll see this cite and pop in to confirm or deny. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/31 "2022-05-28T22:04:11Z")
> [@wombattver](#): > > Her ability to vote means little when she doesn’t have a US address and in today’s current madness of gerrymandering and redistricting, her vote may not count for much anyway. If you are not a resident of a state, you cannot vote for President (unless residing in DC) nor any Congressperson since you are not represented in a State or District. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/32 "2022-05-28T22:07:16Z")
Rather than hijack this thread, I am going to start a new one in Mundane Pointless… ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/33 "2022-05-28T22:08:34Z")
I have dual citizenship with Australia. When I lived in Oz, I filed a US return every year, but because my income was below the foreign income exclusion I paid no US tax. > If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude your foreign earnings from income up to an amount that is adjusted annually for inflation ($105,900 for 2019, $107,600 for 2020, $108,700 for 2021, and $112,000 for 2022). In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts. – Source: IRS (A 2022 US$112k income is AUS$156k income.) Since returning to the US, I don’t even file an Australian return. I do have to file FBAR in the US because I still maintain a bank account in Oz tied to a retirement fund. I have no immediate plans to visit/live in Oz, but I retain citizenship. Because my Oz passport is expired I need to travel to the nearest Australian consulate in the US to renew it. I will forever retain my dual citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/34 "2022-05-28T22:10:14Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If you are not a resident of a state, you cannot vote for President (unless residing in DC) nor any Congressperson since you are not represented in a State or District. Incorrect. My sister has lived outside of the US for 40 years. She votes in every federal election, based on the Congressional district she lived in before she left America. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/35 "2022-05-28T22:17:48Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Incorrect. My sister has lived outside of the US for 40 years. She votes in every federal election, based on the Congressional district she lived in before she left America. That hasn’t always been true, but it is true now. I mailed in my vote for the California primaries last week, based on my last US address. From Wikipedia: " Before 1986 there had been some access to voting from abroad, but it varied." [Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformed_and_Overseas_Citizens_Absentee_Voting_Act) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/36 "2022-05-29T00:29:15Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Incorrect. My sister has lived outside of the US for 40 years. She votes in every federal election, based on the Congressional district she lived in before she left America. No, I am correct. I didn’t say reside in a state, I said a **resident** of a state as in the 14th Amendment usage in response to _Dred Scott_ equating “resident” of a state with the older usage “citizen” of that state. If I move out of Colorado yet keep my Colorado residency (driver’s license, voter registration, etc.) I am still a legal resident of Colorado although I do not reside there and can vote just like your sister does. Many expats do exactly that. Now if, for example, I were a US citizen born in Botswana and never established residency in any US state, then no I cannot vote in Federal elections. Based on the fact that the daughter in the OP has been living in Australia since she was 12, unless there is unknown information she would not be eligible to be a Colorado resident. > A Colorado resident is a person who has made a home in Colorado or a person whose intention is to be a Colorado resident. The Department will consider, among other things, Colorado voter registration, Colorado vehicle registration, Colorado driver license, school registration, property ownership and residence of spouse or children in determining intention to be a Colorado resident. Lather, rinse, repeat for 50 states and DC (assuming all of those have similar definitions of residency) then the daughter in the OP is ineligible to vote in Federal election since she is not a legal resident (again 14th Amendment) of any US state. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/37 "2022-05-29T02:40:51Z")
I don’t think you are correct. Voting residence and legal residence are different: [Voting Residence](https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/voting-residence) & [Never Resided in the U.S.](https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/reside) Specifically, from the latter site: “A U.S. citizen who has never resided in the U.S. and has a parent, legal guardian, spouse or civil union partner that was last domiciled in Colorado is eligible to vote in Colorado.” Have last resided there are the age of 12 means that, for voting purposes, she’s a Colorado resident. I am a California resident for voting purposes, but not eligible for jury duty or subject to state taxes because I’m not a resident in the usual, literal sense. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/38 "2022-05-29T02:53:27Z")
Thank you for that but I noticed that many states were not on that list. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/39 "2022-05-29T02:58:34Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I am a California resident for voting purposes, but not eligible for jury duty or subject to state taxes because I’m not a resident in the usual, literal sense. I’m glad to hear that somebody has representation without taxation, to offset my tyrannical taxation without representation as a non-citizen resident. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254/40 "2022-05-29T03:03:42Z")
Blame Reagan-era Republicans’ desire to lock in the largely conservative overseas (i.e. military) vote. There used to be a rule, at least in California, that if you were permanently abroad, you were only supposed to vote for federal offices, so your senators, congressional rep., and pres / VP. I abided by this for years, even though it was on the honor system, but they changed the rules. I did talk to the registrar of voters in my county to make sure it was kosher to vote for everything, but they said it was, so I do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship-has-anyone-here-relinquished-your-us-citizenship/965254.md?page=3)