# Dual Citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248 "2016-06-24T16:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@Rama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rama)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/21 "2016-06-28T16:31:52Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I have dual Irish/American citizenship because my father was born in Ireland. He told me this when I was already in my 30s and I didn’t quite believe it. > > So I called the Irish embassy about what I termed “applying” for Irish citizenship. I was informed I didn’t need to apply, I already WAS an Irish citizen. I could apply for an Irish passport to document this if I wanted to. > > I never did so because I never found any particular reason to. > > Note: after looking at the OP link, you are in the same boat. You don’t have to apply to BE an Irish citizen, you probably are one already. You would apply for some kind of documentation to verify that fact. > [@iljitsch](#): > > Actually the Netherlands is really difficult about dual citizenship. In many cases Dutch people have to give up their Dutch citizenship when they gain another. But yes, many caveats apply. Thanks for all the insightful answers. I didn’t know that about the UK. Turns out I lose my Dutch identity if I am not already an Irish Citizen. So that is the real question for me to answer. My parents never told me that I am so that might be difficult. I’ll have to look into that further. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/22 "2016-06-28T17:35:50Z")
I looked into this regarding gaining American citizenship and what I found is that if you become an American through marriage you get to keep your Dutch citizenship, but not if you don’t. However, unless I’m mistaken you can pretty much always return to Holland if you were born Dutch even if you no longer have the citizenship and then you can re-apply for Dutch citizenship after a while. You’ll have to give up your other one at that point, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@Rama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rama)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/23 "2016-06-28T17:51:32Z")
Yes some exceptions apply like having lived in the other country for over 5 years (I haven’t) and marriage for example. It would not be worth it for me to lose my Dutch citizenship so I have e-mailed the Irish embassy to inquire if I am in fact already Irish. If I am not, I am not gonna bother. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/24 "2016-06-29T15:14:13Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That’s got nothing to do with the country the passport is the property of. It’s all about “give us your passport so that you can’t leave the country. The alternative is that you’ll be remanded instead of having bail set” > A quick search suggests that Indian, British , Australian and UAE courts all may require the surrender of a foreign passport as a bail condition- and I suspect that almost all countries allow such a bail condition. So how would they know? I suppose if they find out later, you have violated your bail condition by failing to surrender it… > [@Frank](#): > > The application asks if you acquired citizenship of another country prior to 1947. That’s due to a quirk in the law. Another quirk is if you were born abroad between 1977 and 1981. Other than that, Canada doesn’t care, and it is not a question on the application. > > Re the OP, I’d go for it. Can’t hurt, and you never know what will happen down the road. As mentioned above, the only possible drawback is that if you get in trouble in Ireland, the Netherlands won’t offer you services; you’re an Irish citizen. And vice versa. As long as you’re not planning on getting arrested in Ireland, you’re OK. Hmmm… I’m pretty sure when I was applying a few years ago it only asked about other citizenships, no qualifying date. Is that recent? As for the OP, isn’t the answer that you always were an Irish citizen? Or are you “becoming” one when you apply for a passport? I assume the Dutch government attitude is “you left Holland and became a citizen of your new country, so now you don’t belong here”? Not sure if that would apply if you always were an Irish citizen. Also, is that Dutch provision still applied? I’ve seen similar discussions about US citizenship, and generally the rule seems to be now that despite rules that originally did not really allow dual citizenship when naturalized, the US nowadays does not seem to care, you remain American unless you specifically renounce their citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Rama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@Rama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/25 "2016-06-29T16:17:01Z")
From the looks of it, The Netherlands is pretty strict. But yes, it does look like I am already Irish and in that case the Dutch government is fine with it. The Irish embassy got back to me and they will send me application forms and information about getting a passport. It’s funny how I never knew about this. My parents always told me I am not Irish because I was simply born there and we moved away (they are not Irish). One governing body that links my University to the Government mentions my 2nd nationality in my profile but I figured that was a mistake because I was born there. They might have been onto something. I am out of the country for the next 1,5 months so I will wait with applying until I get back but I’ll keep you updated. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/26 "2016-06-29T18:17:06Z")
I have a cousin who has dual citizenship and a passport from a third country. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/27 "2016-06-30T17:21:47Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > … > > Draft or national service- you can get drafted into Ireland’s army ? check that out > … Does Ireland have conscription? Really? :dubious: I don’t think that it does. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/28 "2016-07-01T01:46:40Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > Does Ireland have conscription? Really? :dubious: I don’t think that it does. No, we’ve never had conscription. The national army was founded in 1913 as the “Irish Volunteers” and, although the name has changed, it’s very much an all-volunteer force. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/29 "2016-07-03T00:26:28Z")
When I was younger, my folks took me to the family hometown in Switzerland and I had to get dressed up and get my name inscribed in some dusty old book. Borrrring… But thanks to that, turns out I can get a Swiss passport. So we put our kid’s name in The Book, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/30 "2016-07-03T04:04:36Z")
> [@digs](#): > > When I was younger, my folks took me to the family hometown in Switzerland and I had to get dressed up and get my name inscribed in some dusty old book. > > Borrrring… > > But thanks to that, turns out I can get a Swiss passport. > > So we put our kid’s name in The Book, too. That’s neat. All of my grandparents were born in England, so if I jump through enough hoops I can get ‘indefinite leave to remain’ (landed immigrant status) based on my UK ancestry. I’d still have to live there for five years and go through the other steps to become a UK citizen and get a UK passport. No grandparents were born in Northern Ireland, so I can’t claim Irish citizenship as well as (or instead of?) UK citizenship. No quick route to a second passport for me… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/31 "2016-07-03T16:13:46Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > That’s neat. > > All of my grandparents were born in England, so if I jump through enough hoops I can get ‘indefinite leave to remain’ (landed immigrant status) based on my UK ancestry. I’d still have to live there for five years and go through the other steps to become a UK citizen and get a UK passport. No grandparents were born in Northern Ireland, so I can’t claim Irish citizenship as well as (or instead of?) UK citizenship. No quick route to a second passport for me… As well as, if one so chooses. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/32 "2016-07-04T22:23:12Z")
> [@Rama](#): > > From the looks of it, The Netherlands is pretty strict. > > But yes, it does look like I am already Irish and in that case the Dutch government is fine with it. The Irish embassy got back to me and they will send me application forms and information about getting a passport. I am Dutch/English. What I never understand about all this tough talk about not allowing dual citizenship: how would they know? AFAIK the only way they find out is if you tell them. So don’t. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/33 "2016-07-05T02:48:30Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > I am Dutch/English. What I never understand about all this tough talk about not allowing dual citizenship: how would they know? AFAIK the only way they find out is if you tell them. So don’t. At some point they’re likely to ask - you’e going to have to sign a form somewhere along the way stating your nationality, or something of the kind. (E.g. when you next renew your passport.) So if you’re going down this road you need to be willing to do more than just “don’t tell”. You need to be willing, when the time comes, to lie. And, whether before or after you get to the point of lying, you also face the risk that at some point they will find out, through some bureaucratic process or other. Again, if you’re going down this road, you need to decide at the outset that you’re willing to face that risk. Finally, you may need to clarify one thing. In some countries, citizenship law is such that, if you take steps to acquire another citizenship, then the government may deprive you of your first citizenship. But the more usual model is that your own action in taking out a new citizenship is, in itself, a renunciation of your existing citizehship. So, if it all comes to light after (say) twelve years, the position is not that after twelve years of dual citizenship you may now lose your first citizenship (but possibly you can intercede with the government not to do this). The position is likely to be that you haven’t been a citizen of your home country for the past 12 years, and this is only now coming to light. There may or may not be a procedure by which you can apply to have your citizenship restored, but you’ll be starting from the position of not having been a citizen for the past 12 years, and you may have to face awkward questions about the answers you gave to questions four years ago, when you renewed the passport that you weren’t entitled to. This can get messy, is what I’m saying. The ethics of deceiving people aside, a strategy which depends on information not coming to light is always risky, and the longer you persist in the strategy the bigger the mess if it _does_ become unstuck. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/34 "2016-07-05T09:20:00Z")
Even my grandparents & parents were/are Dutch & English, so clearly it is not quite as difficult as all that. The forms I encounter only ever ask “nationality” - I choose one. That’s not a lie. They don’t ask you to list all of you nationalities. The last time I applied for a Dutch passport I was living in de UK and had to get my passport in the Hague. I asked the official there if I should list my UK citizenship, they just said it was up to me. I think I might’ve asked that when I immigrated back to the Netherlands, too. Nobody has ever said I should honestly list all my nationalities. I get the idea, but my point is that in practice it really doesn’t matter, nobody actually cares and there is no mechanism to find out. It’s just populist tough talk on discouraging dual nationalities, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/35 "2016-07-05T11:00:53Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Finally, you may need to clarify one thing. In some countries, citizenship law is such that, if you take steps to acquire another citizenship, then the government may deprive you of your first citizenship. This is true, but the OP has been an Irish citizen from birth. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/36 "2016-07-05T13:31:23Z")
This is obviously going to depend on the precise rules, as well as on the attitude, of the particular countries concerned. Lots of countries have no problem at all with dual nationality, of course. And, of those that do, most are unconcerned about dual nationality that arises simply from the circumstances of your birth, or that is conferred on you as a incident of marrying someone. What bother them is when somebody actively pursues naturalisation in another country. As we have already seen in this thread, Rama was born an Irish citizen. She has never, until now, applied for an Irish passport or (I assume) exercised other incidents of her Irish citizenship, but she has always been an Irish citizen. The Netherlands government has no problem with this, and there is no problem if she now applies for the Irish passport to which she has always been entitled. And some countries require, when you apply for naturalisation, that you should explicitly renounce your existing allegiance, or that you take steps to renounce it with your own government. I suspect if a Netherlands citizen applied for naturalisation in such a country, the chances of the Netherlands government getting to hear of it would be non-trivial. So, it crucially depends on the laws and practices of the two countries involved. ---
**Author:** ![Rama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@Rama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rama)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/37 "2016-07-05T19:26:36Z")
^ Yup that is what I found out as well so I should be good. I am a he by the way. But it is funny to ready about myself in the she form so I don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248/38 "2016-07-07T04:28:17Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > I looked into this regarding gaining American citizenship and what I found is that if you become an American through marriage you get to keep your Dutch citizenship, but not if you. IMU that’s not entirely correct: you can keep the Dutch citizenship if the acquired citizenship is the same as the person you are married to, but it doesn’t specify you have to acquire it by marrying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dual-citizenship/758248.md?page=1)