# Dubya says Iraq pullout is up to "future presidents". **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453 "2006-03-22T17:32:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/61 "2006-03-23T18:28:20Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Right then. The only true journalists are those who ask prearranged or softball questions which segue easily into the party platform “sound bites”. Jeff Gannon was one of those “real journalists” I guess. :rolleyes: Well, that’s such a farsical strawman summary of what I was saying, that I won’t even attempt to refute it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/62 "2006-03-23T18:34:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > But… I have no need or desire to simply see him embarassed at a press confernce. That’s all a question like that seeks to do. She isn’t going to get an answer about what Bush’s “real” reasons were for going to war, but she gets to make a jab at him in public. There are more than two thousand sets of parents that only wish they could see their children grow up to get embarassed at a press conference. Considering their sacrifices, not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqis killed and billions if not someday trillions of dollars gone to waste, I find it hard to worry about whether Bush finds a question embarassing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/63 "2006-03-23T19:01:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There are more than two thousand sets of parents that only wish they could see their children grow up to get embarassed at a press conference. Considering their sacrifices, not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqis killed and billions if not someday trillions of dollars gone to waste, I find it hard to worry about whether Bush finds a question embarassing. I don’t “worry” about it either. I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. Which is a wonderful cathartic experience, I’m sure, but does not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. She got her jab it. Great. What did it accomplish? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/64 "2006-03-23T19:25:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t “worry” about it either. I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. Well then, you would be wrong. I liked the question because it’s the one I would like to ask Bushif I had access to him myself. I want to know the answer as to what the real reasons for the Iraq invasion were, because the idea that the administration believed the reasons that they gave and continue to give have been rendered implausible by the facts that have come to light regarding the reality of the situation and the administration’s awareness of it. It was a, IMO, respectful request for respect in turn. Stop treating us like idiots who can’t handle your truth. You had a reason for invading Iraq. It clearly had nothing to do with the reasons given, so what was it really? Embarassment can only arise if one truly has no answer, and that wouldn’t be Thomas’ fault. > [@John Mace](#): > > Which is a wonderful cathartic experience, I’m sure, but does not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. I would say that the US populace has become pragmatic about Iraq at this point. If the president had an underlying purpose for going into Iraq, such as: - creating a new ME military base so we could get out of Saudi Arabia and perhaps undermine Al Qaida’s tool against us - installing a sympathetic government which might give us much easier access to oil, helping our economy etc., etc. I think a significant portion of the public would be willing get behind him for whatever part of the reason they found worthy at this point to justify the loss. At least enough to raise his poll numbers. Thomas gave him a chance to put that reason foth. He blew it. > [@John Mace](#): > > She got her jab it. Great. What did it accomplish? Nothing. More’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/65 "2006-03-23T19:28:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, your entitled to your own opinion of course, but I think you’re basing your prediction on a charicature of what you think Bush is rather than what he actually is. I’ve seen every indication that he’s going to gut things out in Iraq no matter what. While I don’t doubt that Bush himself would stay in, I think the people around him would like to get out at the first chance they get, provided it it makes us look glorious. On the other hand I can make a case that we’ll stay in the region for over a decade, so who knows. We’ll just have to wait and see I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/66 "2006-03-23T20:31:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t “worry” about it either. I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. Which is a wonderful cathartic experience, I’m sure, but does not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. She got her jab it. Great. What did it accomplish? Nothing. Well, maybe with sufficient repeated applications of the embarrassment, his head will asplode, right there on the podium. Then we could get a future president earlier than anticipated, and we could get our troops the fuck out of Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/67 "2006-03-23T20:46:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, maybe with sufficient repeated applications of the embarrassment, his head will asplode, right there on the podium. Then we could get a future president earlier than anticipated, and we could get our troops the fuck out of Iraq. I’m sure Ms. Thomas would disagree, since [she’s on record as saying that she would kill herself if Cheney was just a candidate for president](http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/072805.html). Lord knows what she’d do if he actually became president, which is what would happen in your scenario. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/68 "2006-03-23T20:49:42Z")
> [@Rhubarb](#): > > Ze goggles! Zey do nossing! Maybe it would help to picture Washington and Lincoln praying, “Lord, give this guy a clue…”. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/69 "2006-03-23T20:59:02Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > \ > > If (Helen Thomas) wants to be an opinion writer, fine. Let her do that. But if she want’s to be a news reporter, she needs to keep her crabby opinions to herself. Could someone point out to me in the First Amendment where it says that opinion writers cannot ask the President tough questions at press conferences because only so called “objective” news reporters are permitted to do that? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/70 "2006-03-23T21:06:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m sure Ms. Thomas would disagree, since [she’s on record as saying that she would kill herself if Cheney was just a candidate for president](http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/072805.html). Lord knows what she’d do if he actually became president, which is what would happen in your scenario. 🙂 Whatever. ISTM that Cheney, by virtue of the old “heartbeat away” chestnut already _is_ a candidate for the presidency. Anyway, as far as I care, she can just work her way through the line of succession, until we get someone who isn’t a piece of shit. All of this is aside from the point that I really believe that George the Lesses is merely a front, whose purpose is to deflect attention away from those who are actually wielding the power. Hey, just because Douglas Adams was a satirist doesn’t mean none of his plot devices accurately described reality (or _eventual_ reality, in this case). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/71 "2006-03-23T21:13:46Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Great Og. I’d rather have the flu – no, make that bubonic plague – than look at that again. So don’t look at that, then. Look at [this](http://www.americawestandasone.com/awsao.html) instead (broadband advised, click “video”). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/72 "2006-03-23T21:19:12Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Could someone point out to me in the First Amendment where it says that opinion writers cannot ask the President tough questions at press conferences because only so called “objective” news reporters are permitted to do that? :rolleyes: Can you point to where I said that? You can’t, so take your :rolleyes: and shove it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/73 "2006-03-23T23:24:36Z")
Well, what else did you mean by saying this: > [@John Mace](#): > > It’s not a question of her “losing it”-- she abdicated her claim to objectivity. In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7222371&postcount=35) post? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/74 "2006-03-24T00:08:15Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Well, what else did you mean by saying this: > > In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7222371&postcount=35) post? I meant that she can’t be considered an objective news reporter, or any news reporter, for that matter, since an openly biased news reporter is a contradiction. Unles you want to allow people to call Rush Limabaugh and Ann Coulter news reporters. Do you? Imagine, if you will, that the CBS news anchor started each newscast with “I hate George Bush and think he’s the worst president ever. Now, for tonight’s news…” Even if you hate George Bush, wouldn’t you be at least a little skeptical of what the newscaster was reporting? That has nothing to do with the 1st amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/75 "2006-03-24T00:25:09Z")
Yes, Helen Thomas is biased, Pope still Catholic, film at 11. But I think **Brain Wreck’s** point was that you made a specific point of saying the reason you object to her presence in the press room in the first place is _because_ she’s biased. Well, why should she have less access than hand-picked moles like Jeff Anderson? She’s still a member of the White House press corps and a respected journalist. Oh, and that question she asked the president was hardly a statement of opinion. > [@](#): > > I’d like to ask you, Mr. President, your decision to invade Iraq has caused the deaths of thousands of Americans and Iraqis, wounds of Americans and Iraqis for a lifetime. Every reason given, publicly at least, has turned out not to be true. My question is, why did you really want to go to war? From the moment you stepped into the White House, from your Cabinet – your Cabinet officers, intelligence people, and so forth – what was your real reason? You have said it wasn’t oil – quest for oil, it hasn’t been Israel, or anything else. What was it? After that, she was lucky to get a word in edgewise, so she was hardly badgering him. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/76 "2006-03-24T00:34:34Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Maybe it would help to picture Washington and Lincoln praying, “Lord, give this guy a clue…”. Maybe they’re attempting a mind-meld. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/77 "2006-03-24T00:43:01Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Maybe they’re attempting a mind-meld. They’d need something to work with. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/78 "2006-03-24T01:51:44Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Yes, Helen Thomas is biased, Pope still Catholic, film at 11. But I think **Brain Wreck’s** point was that you made a specific point of saying the reason you object to her presence in the press room in the first place is _because_ she’s biased. Well, why should she have less access than hand-picked moles like Jeff Anderson? She’s still a member of the White House press corps and a respected journalist. Did I say I objected to her presence in the press room? I recall saying that I wouldn’t have invited her if was Bush, but I also said it’s his perogative to invite her if he wanted. And she is free to ask him any question she wants. Lets back up a bit, though. I thought we were talking about **zamboni** ’s post. How did you see that what you quoted from me related to the 1st amendment, per his post? ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/79 "2006-03-24T02:26:28Z")
> [@Waverly](#): > > Also for future presidents: > > Medicare > Trade deficit > Budget deficit > Social Security > An all too necessary tax hike > Illegal immigration > Renewing friendships with the EU > > What am I missing? Other than kick the shit out of two backwards middle eastern countries, without every fully stabilizing them again, what is checked off on his to-do list? What are you talking about? He cut taxes, and he pushed through mandatory testing of schoolkids. Was there anything else ON his to-do list in 2000? The whole campaign was “I’ll cut taxes! Oh, and Gore is a nerd! Who won’t cut taxes! But I will! Cut taxes!” As for the OP topic: my reaction was “Well of COURSE he won’t pull the troops out, barring some miracle that lets him claim victory. Otherwise, of course he’ll leave Iraq for his successor to sort out. That way, he and his worshippers can maintain the fantasy that Iraq would have become Switzerland-on-the-Euphrates if only W. had stayed in office.” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/80 "2006-03-24T11:30:32Z")
> [@ryobserver](#): > > As for the OP topic: my reaction was “Well of COURSE he won’t pull the troops out, barring some miracle that lets him claim victory. Otherwise, of course he’ll leave Iraq for his successor to sort out. That way, he and his worshippers can maintain the fantasy that Iraq would have become Switzerland-on-the-Euphrates if only W. had stayed in office.” I foresee a more Vietnam-ish “and it would have worked if it weren’t for those meddling hippies.” Wait, that’s Scooby-Doo. Whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453.md?page=5)