# Dubya says Iraq pullout is up to "future presidents". **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453 "2006-03-22T17:32:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/81 "2006-03-24T20:38:13Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I meant that she can’t be considered an objective news reporter, or any news reporter, for that matter, since an openly biased news reporter is a contradiction. That hasn’t stopped Fox News, has it? ---
**Author:** ![lowkey\_but\_high\_locks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/59ef9b/32.png) [@lowkey\_but\_high\_locks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowkey_but_high_locks)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/82 "2006-03-25T01:33:57Z")
Nothing substantual to add, just the word pullout keeps making me think of sex. Bush admiting to getting fucked? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/83 "2006-03-25T01:40:27Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > That hasn’t stopped Fox News, has it? Last I looked, “Fox News” isn’t a person. But if you have cites of a Fox reporter (not a commentator like O’Reilly, but a reporter) stating on the record something similar to what HT has said\* on the record, then I’ll be happy to question that reporter’s credentials, too. \*that a sitting president is the worst president ever, or that the reporter would commit suicide if the sitting VP ran for president. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/84 "2006-03-25T02:15:34Z")
Is [Les Kinsolving](http://www.leskinsolving.com/) a reporter or a commentator? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/85 "2006-03-25T02:20:44Z")
Blah. Bush got us into a war, and we still don’t have the REAL answer as to why. Instead of a walk in the park with rose petals, we have possible civil war. Instead of a stable democratic government in Afghanistan and Iraq, we have some hodgepodge of sharia law taking hold. There is still no timetable for withdrawal, and the Iraqis still don’t seem to be able to police themselves. And people are more upset that a reporter may have hurt Bush’s feelings by asking a REAL question? Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/86 "2006-03-25T03:17:29Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Is [Les Kinsolving](http://www.leskinsolving.com/) a reporter or a commentator? > > CMC fnord! Never heard of him. Is he with Fox? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/87 "2006-03-25T03:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > **John Mace** : The press is viewed by most people as slightly higher than used car salesmen and ambulance chasing lawyers. I would need a cite for that. I suspect they are viewed with more respect than the men they elected to the highest offices in the land. They have good reason for their low opinion of these men. One of the reasons is that we are in a war and we aren’t clear about _why_. > [@](#): > > Her question at that press conference was of the “Are you still beating your wife” variety. It plays well to the left-leaning Bush haters, but not to those who don’t hate him. When those people see the president being badgering with rhetorical questions, the President wins. And that’s probably why he (or Rove) wanted her there, and why he called on her. Those questions aren’t just coming from the “left” now, **John**. Helen Thomas asked a question that is on a lot of minds right now. Do you think that it a question that has been explained adequately previously? Do you think that it is an unreasonable question considering the people’s right to know? **Why have the reasons continued to change?** > [@](#): > > It plays well to the left and the Bush haters, but I don’t think it serves the process of getting the facts out. President Bush is responsible for _getting the facts out_. Asking him why we are at war doesn’t mean we hate him. > [@](#): > > …I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. Which is a wonderful cathartic experience, I’m sure, but does not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. She got her jab it. Great. What did it accomplish? Nothing. “The glee people”? The word _gleeful_ is one of Rush’s cliches that he projects onto the Democrats and anyone who objects to the destruction, incompetence, greed and lies of this administration. He thinks that it’s politics as usual. Meanwhile, Bush’s ratings are lower than any President since Nixon. I assure you that **glee** is not what we are feeling. > [@](#): > > And she is free to ask him any question she wants. For the first time in four years she was free to ask him a question. And, according to Chris Matthews on **Imus in the Morning** on March 24, 2006, President Bush felt free to _pretend_ that Helen Thomas was trying to interrupt him at times when she wasn’t. Matthews said Thomas was set up. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/88 "2006-03-25T06:18:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Never heard of him. Is he with Fox? No. From, Les’ [Bio](http://www.leskinsolving.com/bio.html) > [@](#): > > LES KINSOLVING is the nation’s only **talk show host** who is also a White House **correspondent** ,… > > AS A NEWSPAPER COLUMNIST AND REPORTER before he went into broadcasting, Les was twice nominated for the Pulitzer Prize in the category of **criticism or commentary** … > > AS A WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT beginning in the last year of Richard Nixon, and now fourth in seniority, Les has questioned every president since. Sample: > > ``` > * QUESTION: "Mr. President (Reagan), will your crime commission investigate Bob Woodward's televised announcement that at the Washington Post there are 40 hardened users of cocaine?... or are you inclined to sluff off here -- because this explains a lot of what goes into the Washington Post?"... > > ``` His questions at WH press conferences are of the “Are you still beating your wife” variety. If he wants to be an opinion writer, fine. Let him do that. But if he wants to be a news reporter, he needs to keep his crabby opinions to himself. Or is there a double standard?[ > [@](#): > > …Thomas, a syndicated **columnist** for Hearst Newspapers who has covered the White House since the Kennedy administration, wrote in May that Cheney “certainly could campaign on the theme that he has had experience in running the White House.” > > Thomas made the suggestion in a column she wrote about President Bush’s not being notified about a terror scare caused by an off-course Cessna airplane until after it was over, according to Editor & Publisher magazine. > > Declaring that the incident “again raises the question of who’s running the show,” Thomas also noted Cheney’s central role on Sept. 11 and the widely held view that he is “probably the most powerful vice president in recent times, perhaps in U.S. history.” > > But asked this week if she is promoting a Cheney candidacy, Thomas made it clear she isn’t. > > “The day I say Dick Cheney is going to run for president, I’ll kill myself,” she told The Hill. “All we need is one more liar.” > > Thomas added, “I think he’d like to run, but it would be a sad day for the country if he does.”… ]([http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/072805.html](http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/072805.html)) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/89 "2006-03-25T14:21:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I recall saying that I wouldn’t have invited her if was Bush, but I also said it’s his perogative to invite her if he wanted. The President does \*not \* get to choose who he wants to have reporting on his administration. Not yet, anyway, but it’s sad to see someone normally as smart as you thinking he does. Where the holy hell did you get \*that \* idea from? > [@](#): > > I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. First of all, fuck you. Second, this idea that it is simple glee at seeing somebody embarrassed, not a genuine concern about the war and the reasons for people getting killed, is a comment we’d expect from the likes of **Shodan** or **duffer**. It’s a sad commentary that the best way you can find to support this administration is to deny either the good intentions or the sanity of anyone who’d question it. And did I mention fuck you? Fuck you again, then. So why \*do \* you think Bush started this war? Do you even think it matters, much less that it should be explored and discussed in what is still putatively a democracy? > [@](#): > > Which is a wonderful cathartic experience, I’m sure, but does not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. She got her jab it. Great. What did it accomplish? Nothing. That post no doubt was a cathartic experience for you, accomplishing a temporary if unfounded feeling of moral and intellectual superiority to the mere fact-based community. But it did not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. You got your jab in. Great. What did it accomplish? \*Less \* than nothing - you provided nothing for anyone to think about, you only cemented your recently-hard-won position as a Kool-Aid-poisoned kneejerker - and we have enough of those around as it is. Grow the fuck up, dude. Accept some responsibility for your country, not the party you still oddly deny you’ve adopted. The country is bigger and more important. And meanwhile, fuck you some more. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/90 "2006-03-25T16:45:43Z")
I’m thinking this whole “she was mean and partisan and asked a mean partisan question” is bullshit. I’m sorry, but that’s how I see it. It was a fair question. It deserved an honest answer. It feeds into other questions about other things, which were / are justified by the “we’re at war” argument. One question should lead to the next. And the next. Tough shit if Bush didn’t like it, and tough shit if his “fans” don’t like it. Saying that reporter was mean or biased is a sorry right wing bullshit talking point. As for “signing statements”, bullshit on that too. Hey Bushy, either sign the fucking thing or veto it. By the way, did anyone catch the way he slipped that “unitary executive” phrase (a John Yoo invention) in there? The more I think on it, the more I believe he was once again telling all of us “I will do whatever I fucking please”. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/91 "2006-03-25T17:07:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m thinking this whole “she was mean and partisan and asked a mean partisan question” is bullshit. Have you followed the [Domenech plagiarism debacle](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/washpostblog/) this week? The level of right wing whining over those impolite lefties [beggers the imagination!](http://www.redstate.com/story/2006/3/24/231749/503) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/92 "2006-03-25T18:16:51Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Have you followed the [Domenech plagiarism debacle](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/washpostblog/) this week? The level of right wing whining over those impolite lefties [beggers the imagination!](http://www.redstate.com/story/2006/3/24/231749/503) I’ve been following it. That “writer” was a liar, a plagiarist, a bigot, and a general scumbag. To hell with him and his defenders too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/93 "2006-03-25T18:46:56Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m thinking this whole “she was mean and partisan and asked a mean partisan question” is bullshit. I never said she was mean, but she is partisan. That’s a fact. If you can refute the proof I’ve offered about that, have at it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/94 "2006-03-25T19:49:10Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I never said she was mean, but she is partisan. That’s a fact. If you can refute the proof I’ve offered about that, have at it. I don’t give a damn if she is or isn’t. What does it matter? After all, the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc, have been NOT asking hard questions for several years. Uhhhhhh, what was that one which was “held in abeyance” until after the last election??? I want real news and answers. I do NOT want “happy news” about how great The Leader is, or how well the war on everybody is going. If it’s partisan to not roll over and play nice, then have at it. I had a big problem, just around the time I joined the Dope - the news I read did NOT match the facts I knew. I was real confused, and thought it was just me being stupid. Why? The “media” was acting like a big spineless lying echo chamber for the White House. Now someone finally has the nerve to ask a real question, and the righties get their panties all twisted up. Again, I don’t give a shit if she is partisan. It’s all been partisan for years, in the other direction. I’m sick and tired of the barely disguised “dearest and wisest leader tell us how wonderful you are” shit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/95 "2006-03-25T20:08:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No. > From, Les’ [Bio](http://www.leskinsolving.com/bio.html) > His questions at WH press conferences are of the “Are you still beating your wife” variety. > If he wants to be an opinion writer, fine. Let him do that. But if he wants to be a news reporter, he needs to keep his crabby opinions to himself. > > Or is there a double standard?[url=http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/072805.html] > > CMC fnord! Well, if he advertises himself as an editorial writer, then I don’t see a problem. I’m not sure what Helen Thomas advertises herself as these days, but I think it would be disengenuous of her to call herself a news reporter. That’s all. She might ask the most insightful questions in the world, but at this point I wouldn’t trust any of her news articles, if she even writes any these days, because of her declared bias. It’s nothing against her specifically, but any reporter who makes his or her bias explicit. If Rush Limbaugh wrote an “article” about Ted Kennedy, would you believe anything in it? I wouldn’t. > [@Zoe](#): > > For the first time in four years she was free to ask him a question. And, according to Chris Matthews on Imus in the Morning on March 24, 2006, President Bush felt free to pretend that Helen Thomas was trying to interrupt him at times when she wasn’t. Matthews said Thomas was set up. Emphasis added. Isn’t that exactly what I said earlier in this thread? Do you think Bush suddenly decided to call on HT out of the kindness in his heart? I suspect she was set up. BTW, I don’t have a cite per your other question. It’s an opinion, but one shared by quite a few political analysts I’ve seen. If you disagree, fine. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/96 "2006-03-26T00:43:55Z")
_GWB:_ > [@](#): > > I can only tell you that I will make decisions on force levels based upon what the commanders on the ground say. 'Bout fucking time, George. At least you’re learning. _John Mace:_ > [@](#): > > I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. Which is a wonderful cathartic experience, I’m sure, but does not add to intelligent debate about the Iraq war and where we go from here. She got her jab it. Great. What did it accomplish? Nothing. Y’know what **would** have accomplished something? _An actual, honest answer to the fucking question._ Just a thought. _John Mace again:_ > [@](#): > > Her question at that press conference was of the “Are you still beating your wife” variety. Yes, if “Are you still beating your wife?” were preceded by: "Sir, everybody’s seen the police reports about you beating your wife on several occasions, and we’ve talked to the neighbors about your beating your wife, and looked at the videotapes of you actually beating your wife at various times and with various implements, so we were just wondering . . . " ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/97 "2006-03-26T08:14:45Z")
Let’s try to focus on the positive here. By conceding the existence of future presidents, it appears Bush has given up any plans he may have had of cancelling the 2008 elections. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/98 "2006-03-27T04:33:27Z")
**Little Nemo** > [@](#): > > By conceding the existence of future presidents, it appears Bush has given up any plans he may have had of cancelling the 2008 elections. Yes, but he might be working on repealing the 22nd amendment. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/99 "2006-03-27T05:40:11Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Little Nemo** > Yes, but he might be working on repealing the 22nd amendment. Much as I abhor George II, his pomps and his works, I kinda doubt this. For one thing, it’s awfully late in the day. For another, unless it’s framed in such a way as to be an utter political sham—which we know would never happen under this administration—it would allow one William Jefferson Clinton to run again. And that would be a nightmare beyond their wildest conception. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/100 "2006-03-27T15:32:41Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Much as I abhor George II, his pomps and his works, I kinda doubt this. For one thing, it’s awfully late in the day. For another, unless it’s framed in such a way as to be an utter political sham—which we know would never happen under this administration—it would allow one William Jefferson Clinton to run again. And that would be a nightmare beyond their wildest conception. Sure would be fun to watch the election debates, though, huh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453.md?page=6)