# Dubya says Iraq pullout is up to "future presidents". **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453 "2006-03-22T17:32:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/101 "2006-03-27T18:04:48Z")
Come to think of it, Jimmy Carter only actually served one term. Just saying, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/102 "2006-03-27T18:08:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I am suggesting that the glee people are feeling wrt Ms. Thomas’ question is because they largely want him to be embarrassed. I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but personally, there is a sort of bleak entertainment to be found in the increasing directness with which people are directing Bush to consider his myriad failures in the attempt to discern whether the man has anything even vaguely resembling a sense of shame. As spectator sports, it’s awfully morbid, considering what’s at stake, but I take what I can get. > [@John Mace](#): > > I never said she was mean, but she is partisan. That’s a fact. Her position is irrelevant. How is the _question_ partisan? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/103 "2006-03-27T18:09:53Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > As spectator sports, it’s awfully morbid As spectator sports _ **go** _… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/104 "2006-03-27T18:38:05Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Her position is irrelevant. It was relevant when I first brought it up in this thread in response to a discussion about her. I only brought it up again when it was challenged. > [@](#): > > How is the _question_ partisan? I never said it was. I just said it was a stupid question to ask beacuse you know the answer you’re going to get. Even someone as dim as Bush didn’t fall for the “trap”. Does anyone really expect him to say: “Well, Helen, now that you bring it up, the real reason I wanted to invade Iraq was…” Yes, reporters ask those trick questions all the time, but for those who think it was such a great question and helpful in the process of getting the fact out: What new information did we learn as the result of HT asking this question? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/105 "2006-03-27T19:22:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Does anyone really expect him to say: “Well, Helen, now that you bring it up, the real reason I wanted to invade Iraq was…” Yes, in this case. When so much has been revealed about what the administration did and did know know and believe prior to invasion, as well as what, given the information known to be available to them, it is reasonable to expect that they should have known and believed prior to invasion, and considering that Bush’s current round of less-screened public appearances is reputedly aimed at clearing the air between him and the American people, yes, I expected a straightforward answer to that question, because the answer he gave, a parroting of the known untruths he and his administration have been peddling to an increasingly dubious public for the past three years, was, at his has been since day one, an insult to my intelligence. > [@John Mace](#): > > Yes, reporters ask those trick questions all the time, but for those who think it was such a great question and helpful in the process of getting the fact out: What new information did we learn as the result of HT asking this question? Nothing. Again, that says something, but not about Helen Thomas. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/106 "2006-03-27T19:30:53Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > How is the _question_ partisan? In the same way that, as Rob Corddry pointed out, “From the names of our fallen soldiers to the gradual withdrawal of our allies to the growing insurgency, it’s become all too clear that facts in Iraq have an anti-Bush agenda.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/107 "2006-03-27T19:32:43Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > Yes, in this case. I don’t think you really believe that, but if you do, all that shows is that I’m better at making predictions about these things than you are. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/108 "2006-03-27T20:19:30Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t think you really believe that, but if you do, all that shows is that I’m better at making predictions about these things than you are. A fool could have predicted that he would dodge the question. What was refreshing was to see a journalist who hadn’t forgotten that the likely outcome didn’t imply the question shouldn’t be posed. With about 2/3rds of the country against Bush at the moment, it is clear that the people want some straight talk on Iraq. It is a journalist’s duty, as someone with access, to ask directly for that straight talk. When the president says he’s there to talk straight, such a question provides him with an opportunity to put his money where his mouth is. A straightforward answer would have been an indicator to me that Bush is sincere in wanting to explain just what the hell it is he thinks he and his cronies are accomplishing. It would have shown me that he has a shred of human honesty in him. I am also, sadly, not the least bit surprised at this point that he chose not to answer the question honestly. But it’s all for the good: the people need to see and hear what sort of leader he is, so the question had to be asked, just as he needed, as he has for some time, to talk to the people in these unfiltered fora. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/109 "2006-03-27T20:49:11Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > A fool could have predicted that he would dodge the question. IOW, you knew he would dodge it, but you hoped he might not. That’s different from what you originally said. > [@](#): > > What was refreshing was to see a journalist who hadn’t forgotten that the likely outcome didn’t imply the question shouldn’t be posed. Meh. This happens all the time. If not to Bush, then to Scotty. There was nothing refreshing or insightful about it. It wasn’t even particularly original. I’m all for the Harball questions, but they have to be effective questions, too. If you want some good examples, check out the GD thread from a few weeks ago when the OP was soliciting questions for his friend to ask Bush in the Cleveland meeting. I think our own folks here had some better ideas than HT did. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/110 "2006-03-27T20:54:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What new information did we learn as the result of HT asking this question? Bush is continuing to avoid and deny reality. Every time that fact is re-confirmed is significant, and the question needs to be asked daily, until either the answer changes or the people get fed up with the evasion and march down Pennsylvania Avenue with pitchforks and torches, or whatever passes for widespread abandonment of a leader in our electronically fragmented culture. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/111 "2006-03-27T21:17:46Z")
**Cervaise** : Don’t get me wrong-- I’m not unsympathetic to that point of view at all. I’m just being realistic in my cynicism that it has any chance of happening. We just had the 3 year anniversary of the Iraq invasion. The protests were miniscule\*. The only way to affect change is for the Democrats to gain control of at aleast on of the Houses in Congress in November. Frankly, the more Bush is out there being all comabtive with the press, the more he shores up his base, and even turns some of the undecideds in his favor. I bet he gets his polls numbers up a bit due to these recent events (although I have no doubt they’ll sag right back down again as soon as he stops). Sorry if I can’t get excited about some throw-away question from HT. \*Did you participte, btw? If not, then a call to the barricades is pretty empty. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/112 "2006-03-27T21:27:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Meh. This happens all the time. If not to Bush, then to Scotty. There was nothing refreshing or insightful about it. It wasn’t even particularly original. I’m all for the Harball questions, but they have to be effective questions, too. If you want some good examples, check out the GD thread from a few weeks ago when the OP was soliciting questions for his friend to ask Bush in the Cleveland meeting. I think our own folks here had some better ideas than HT did. As I said, I wouldn’t take Scott McLellan’s job for a pile of money and all the maalox in the world. My biggest gripe is that these questions are never answered, they’re side stepped. And yes, it’s probably naive to expect an answer at this point, but I don’t think that should stop us from asking the hard questions. Congress won’t challenge the administration’s actions, someone has to. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/113 "2006-03-27T23:40:52Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > IOW, you knew he would dodge it, but you hoped he might not. That’s different from what you originally said. As far as what I ORIGINALLY said, it was that I was amazed at how he answered the question. Amazed is not surprised. I can be amazed that The Great Zamboni pulls a rhino out of the back of his pants during his magic act, but if I had every indication (posters, ads, my program) that tonight’s performance would include the rhino-from-the-pants trick, I will not be surprised. > [@John Mace](#): > > Meh. This happens all the time. If not to Bush, then to Scotty. Simpering sycophant that he is\*, I cut McLellan some slack. While he SHOULD know the details of White House policy on everything, it can be hard to call them all to mind in the heat of direct questioning, and the personality required for the job pretty much says that you will leap to the defense, even if what comes out of your mouth makes little sense. I feel no compulsion to offer ANY president such consideration. It’s their policy, they should know it like the back of their hand. \*Not knocking him actually, it’s pretty much in the job description for a press secretary. I recall years ago in the 80s that John Chancellor did a TV special where the panel was every living former press secretary, from I believe Eisenhower’s or Truman’s guys up through at least Jody Powell from the Carter administration. Powell was the only one of the bunch who allowed himself to show even the slightest sign of having an objective, possibly critical opinion of the policies it had been their job to explain to the press. Everyone else was just as much of a toady as they had been while on the job. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/114 "2006-03-28T02:01:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > We just had the 3 year anniversary of the Iraq invasion. The protests were miniscule\*. No, just barely reported upon by the lapdog mass media. Hundreds of thousands participated. [qutoe]Frankly, the more Bush is out there being all comabtive with the press, the more he shores up his base, and even turns some of the undecideds in his favor. [/quote] Approval ratings down in the mid-30’s now. Even among Republicans, it’s down to around 70. Is that statement drawn from the facts or from your partisan fantasizing? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/115 "2006-03-28T05:41:32Z")
I’m afraid Dubya will not be able to dump all this on future presidents: [http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-03-27T191932Z\_01\_L27605414\_RTRUKOC\_0\_UK-IRAQ.xml](http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-03-27T191932Z_01_L27605414_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ.xml) > [@](#): > > Iraq parties demand U.S. cede control > Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:20 PM GMT > > BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq’s ruling parties demanded U.S. forces cede control of security on Monday as the government launched an inquiry into a raid on a Shi’ite mosque that ministers said saw “cold blooded” killings by U.S.-led troops. > > As Shi’ite militiamen fulminated over Sunday’s deaths of 20 or more people in Baghdad, an al Qaeda-led group said it carried out one of the bloodiest Sunni insurgent attacks in months. A suicide bomber killed 40 Iraqi army recruits in northern Iraq. > > The Iraqi Defence Ministry said a suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt also wounded 30 at a base near Mosul. > > After a confusing 24 hours following the bloodshed around Baghdad’s Mustafa mosque in which the U.S. military restricted itself to issuing one somewhat opaque statement, U.S. officials distanced themselves from the operation, calling it Iraqi-led. > > Officials in Baghdad appeared to wait for input from Washington, underlining the sensitivity of the confrontation between Iraq’s Iranian-linked Shi’ite Islamist leaders and the U.S. forces at a time when Washington is pressing them to forge a unity government with minority Sunnis to avert civil war. > > A day later, three broad versions of the events that led to the deaths of some 20 – or possibly more – people persisted. > > Iraq’s security minister accused U.S. and Iraqi forces of killing 37 unarmed civilians in the mosque after tying them up. > > Residents and police, who put the death toll among the troops’ opponents at around 20, spoke of a fierce battle between the soldiers and gunmen from the Mehdi Army militia of Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, whose followers ran the mosque. > > And U.S. officials, finally confirming they were describing the same incident, stuck by a statement saying Iraqi special forces, advised by U.S. troops, killed 16 “insurgents” who fired on them first. They also insisted no troops entered any mosque and had freed an Iraqi being held prisoner. > > … > > One thing was certain: Shi’ite leaders were up in arms against the U.S. forces who effectively brought them to power by overthrowing Saddam Hussein’s Sunni-dominated Baathist regime. > > “The Alliance calls for a rapid restoration of (control of) security matters to the Iraqi government,” Jawad al-Maliki, a senior spokesman of the Shi’ite Islamist Alliance and ally of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, told a news conference. > > The United States handed over formal sovereignty in 2004 but 133,000 troops in the country give it the main say in security. > > Government-run television repeated lengthy footage of the bodies of men in civilian clothes with no weapons in sight. > > Baghdad provincial governor Hussein al-Tahan said he would halt all cooperation with U.S. forces. > > Aides to Sadr denied any Mehdi Army fighters were present. > > But witnesses spoke of a lengthy gun battle: “The shooting lasted for more than an hour,” shopkeeper Ali Abdul Jabbar said. > > SADR > > The fiery young cleric’s militia was ordered to disband after U.S. forces crushed uprisings in 2004. But it remains a force in southern Iraq and eastern Baghdad, and is accused by U.S. officials of some of the violence that killed hundreds of Sunnis after last month’s bombing of a Shi’ite shrine. > > Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, at the centre of urgent U.S. efforts to stem violence by creating a unity government, has said in recent days that the militias must be brought to heel and accused Iran of funding and training some armed groups. He said militias are now killing more Iraqis than the insurgents. > > Khalilzad plans ground-breaking talks with Iran to try to break the deadlock over the formation of a unity government. A discussion on this, over here: > **[Can we go now? Iraq parties demand U.S. cede control](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364786)** > > http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-03-27T191932Z\_01\_L27605414\_RTRUKOC\_0\_UK-IRAQ.xml I thought the Shiites were going to be tired of the American presence much later, since I thought the Shiites were one... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/116 "2006-03-28T06:24:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure would be fun to watch the election debates, though, huh? Screw the election debates. I just want to listen in when the subject of who’s going to run is “discussed” at the Clinton household. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/117 "2006-03-28T14:24:50Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Note he didn’t say combat would continue under future presidents, just that troop pullout wouldn’t happen under his presidency. > > We still have troops in Germany and Korea. I doubt they see much combat, but they’re still there. Somehow, **ivy,** I don’t think it’s going to work out that way in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/118 "2006-03-29T12:44:57Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Note he didn’t say combat would continue under future presidents, just that troop pullout wouldn’t happen under his presidency. > > We still have troops in Germany and Korea. I doubt they see much combat, but they’re still there. When I was in Germany in 1988, the guide had told us the land the base was on was deeded to the USA,so it is our property. It makes it easier for the US to move troops with less expense and most of our injured soilders are move there for faster treatment. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/119 "2006-03-29T20:51:36Z")
Now the U.S. is “telling” Iraq to replace their Prime Minister - with someone more compliant I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453/120 "2006-03-29T23:10:41Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Now the U.S. is “telling” Iraq to replace their Prime Minister - with someone more compliant I suppose. Hmmm? Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-says-iraq-pullout-is-up-to-future-presidents/349453.md?page=7)