# Dubya the lush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413 "2003-05-25T16:37:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/21 "2003-05-26T00:03:38Z")
I don’t buy the theory of alcoholism addiction that supports the “dry drunk” mythology, so I don’t think it makes sense to typecast someone into a personality type just because they used to drink too much. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/22 "2003-05-26T00:10:20Z")
Since addiction is defined in terms of consequences (continued use despite adverse consequences) and since GWB has admitted that the drinking was affecting his life (DUIs, for instance), I think it’s safe to say that he is a recovering alcoholic, Anyone who’s ever been to an AA meeting knows that other alcoholics will roll their eyes at you if you say “I drank too much but I wasn’t an alcoholic.” I’m guessing his handlers don’t want him to admit to it publicly because they think it would make him seem weak or untrustworthy. Personally, I think it would be a great thing for him to talk about. It would send a message to active alcoholics and addicts that it _is_ possible not only to recover but to revitalize your life, even to the point of becoming POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/23 "2003-05-26T00:21:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I admit part of the reason I started this thread was just to stir shit up. Perhaps this is a subject better suited for the pit, but I am curious if there is any information out there. You are the one making the claim. Present the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/24 "2003-05-26T00:41:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > I’m guessing his handlers don’t want him to admit to it publicly because they think it would make him seem weak or untrustworthy. Personally, I think it would be a great thing for him to talk about. Naw, his handlers are right. Ever hear of Tom Eagleton? ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/25 "2003-05-26T00:44:59Z")
What is with you people??? I only said he “LOOKS LIKE” he fell off the wagon. I did not make a broad sweeping statement that he is always shitfaced. Some of you are able to provide a thoughtful response while others take a “How dare you talk about my god that way, where is your proof?” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/26 "2003-05-26T01:30:33Z")
Proof is required for any proposition advanced in the GD forum, **zoo**. That’s why it’s “Great _DEBATES_,” and not, say, “Great Opinions of Mine,” or “Great Mudane Pointless Stuff I Must Share.” ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/27 "2003-05-26T02:00:17Z")
I’m sorry but I am not certain where the lines are for the different forums. I posted to the moderator asking him/her to move this thread, but it is still here. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/28 "2003-05-26T02:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyone who’s ever been to an AA meeting knows that other alcoholics will roll their eyes at you if you say “I drank too much but I wasn’t an alcoholic.” AA is not exactly the fount of well-supported claims about alcoholism. They may dominate the recovery movement, and do quite a lot of good, but many of their claims and ideas about drinking are on very shaky ground empirically and statistically. The self-sealing “dry drunk” mythos is case in point, as is the desire to paint any sort of abuse of alcohol as life-long, unavoidable alcoholism. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/29 "2003-05-26T02:08:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Proof is required for any proposition advanced in the GD forum Hence, all those posts about the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction were entirely out of order ? You set the bar too high. GD is formally described as “For long-running discussions of the great questions of our time.” A formerly alcoholic president who may have fallen off the wagon constitutes a _real_ threat to national security, and thus is worthy of discussion in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/30 "2003-05-26T02:35:15Z")
Well, I’ve known a few “dry drunks” who I wished would drink and get over their nastiness that surfaced in triplicate when they didn’t drink by sheer force of will, so I’ll be the first to say that I believe in the phenomenon. But as for Dubya, I really doubt he’s fallen off the wagon. He’s just waaay too closely watched in the White House. And Laura Bush probably does a better job of watching him than the Secret Service, at least where drinking is concerned, since she singlehandedly got him to quit. I doubt we’ll ever hear all the details, but his blotchy face may just be a result of bad makeup. Don’t forget, the president virtually NEVER appears on camera without makeup. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/31 "2003-05-26T02:38:56Z")
Don’t be ridiculous, Squink. Bush _may_ be a pedophile, or he _may_ be a communist double agent, or he _may_ be an alien from outer space. Barring reasonable evidence, you would be a damn fool to conclude that any of those are true, or even to open a discussion as to the truth of those claims. Also, I went and read that S.F. Chronicle article by [Katherine van Wormer](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/05/25/IN226761.DTL). It is, bar none, the most ridiculous drivel I’ve read in a newspaper this month. Rigid thinking? Extreme language? Grandiosity? Personal crusades? God god almighty, woman, the man is _the President of the United States_. It is not a job desciption ordinarily filled by morally ambivalent, indecisive people wracked with self-doubt! ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/32 "2003-05-26T02:53:45Z")
minty green - thanks for your post. I keep thinking this Katherine person must be the daughter of the famous dean Van Wormer. (Wasn’t that his name?) **Revtim** is probably on the money. If he still has a problem not drinking, I’m sure legal drugs are being used for his anxiety and to prevent drinking. On the other hand, perhaps his alien overlords convinced him no to drink for awhile. … A lot of people thought the pretzel incident was cover for falling off the couch after falling off the wagon. I believe that if he’d fallen off the wagon, it would have been covered up entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/33 "2003-05-26T03:04:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **Bush _may_ be a pedophile** Cite ? :dubious: He _has_ admitted to a drinking problem. No one’s presented any evidence that the problem has cropped up again, but that’s no call to go sticking our heads in the sand with respect to a problem that many people wrestle with repeatedly. Especially when the man in question holds the security of the free world in his, all too human, hands. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/34 "2003-05-26T03:07:05Z")
Recession, 9/11, anthrax, homeland security, International terrorism, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestinian/Israeli peace process, tax reductions. He’s been kinda busy to worry about the obersvations of a few keyboard quarterbacks. Try to imagine the intel he is getting on an hourly basis. If he doesn’t look 90 when he leaves office it is because he is drinking formaldehyde. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/35 "2003-05-26T03:16:20Z")
I’ve heard it say that presidents physically age four years for every year they’re in office – at least, if they’re doing their job right. Which does make one wonder about Reagan. :dubious: Much as I am NOT a Dubya fan, the more I learn, the more I believe that he is at least cunning enough to have surrounded himself with intelligent, talented, experienced people, and then sits back and lets them operate. Which leads to a possibly extra-high degree of political infighting, even by Washington standards, within his administration, but at least suggests that better heads than his are figuring out what’s REALLY important and presenting it to him for approval. That being said, I still don’t see how in the world he could be drinking in the White House. Although maybe he has some bottles hidden in gopher holes down at the ranch? (JUST KIDDING, FOLKS!) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/36 "2003-05-26T03:26:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Cite ? :dubious: He _has_ admitted to a drinking problem. \*\* I missed that personal disclosure. When did he say he was an alcoholic? The only thing I’ve heard about was some partying in college. Not that I would promote such behavior but I managed to tip a few in school. As for Katherine’s article, she must be paid by the adjective. If she ever decides to go slumming on the East Coast she could probably get a job at the NY Times. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/37 "2003-05-26T03:30:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by butrscotch \* > \*\* > > That being said, I still don’t see how in the world he could be drinking in the White House. Although maybe he has some bottles hidden in gopher holes down at the ranch? (JUST KIDDING, FOLKS!) \*\* I’m guessing there’s a refrigerator at his ranch and a couple of them at Camp David. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/38 "2003-05-26T07:51:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zoo \* > \*\*I’m sorry but I am not certain where the lines are for the different forums. I posted to the moderator asking him/her to move this thread, but it is still here. Go figure. \*\* I truely commend you for at least making the effort. Maybe the mods are enjoying the holiday weekend. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413/39 "2003-05-26T14:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zoo \* > I admit part of the reason I started this thread was just to stir shit up. **Moderator’s Note:** The BBQ Pit is our forum for ranting and flaming and so on (as well as complaints about the administration of the Board); however, we don’t actually _have_ a forum for [“just stir[ring] shit up”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2670336#post2670336). Rather than moving this, I think I’ll just close it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dubya-the-lush/177413.md?page=1)