# Duchy of Lancaster **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 5, 2024, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256 "2024-08-05T03:11:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2024, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/21 "2024-08-06T04:15:32Z")
I recall a previous thread where someone said that not just Lancaster and Cornwall, but it was mentioned a number of these titles are attached to the certain lands, and as a result the title, not the person, owns the lands. The current title holder cannot sell those lands, but simply owns them in trust to hand down to the next title holder? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2024, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/22 "2024-08-06T08:12:45Z")
Was it about [fee tail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_tail)? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2024, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/23 "2024-08-06T10:59:37Z")
I think md-2000 is talking about if a person owns the Mangrove Estate, they are now Earl of Squigglyspooch. This used to be a thing but at least in the UK, not for a few centuries. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2024, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/24 "2024-08-06T12:49:05Z")
A little searching gives a link to Frederic Maitland’s essay on the Domesday Book in which he writes that > As with the estates of the king, so with the estates of the earls, we find it impossible to distinguish between private property and official property. Certain manors are regarded as ‘manors of the shire’ _(mansiones de comitatu);_ certain vills are ‘comital vills,’ they belong to ‘the consulate.’ But, yeah, that was a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/25 "2024-08-06T16:10:14Z")
Up until the oughts you could’ve been born the Dame or Lord of Sark > **[Sark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sark)** > > in the Bailiwick of Guernsey (red) Sark (Sercquiais: Sèr or Cerq, French: Sercq) is an island, part of the Channel Islands in the southwestern English Channel, off the coast of Normandy, France. It is a royal fief, which forms part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, with its own set of laws based on Norman law and its own parliament. It has a population of about 500. Sark (including the nearby island of Brecqhou) has an area of 2.10 square miles (5.44 km2). Little Sark is a peninsula joined by a na... Until the second half of the [2000s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s) Sark was considered the last [feudal state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism) in Europe.[[47]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sark#cite_note-Milmo_2006-49) Together with the other [Channel Islands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Islands), it is the last remnant of the former [Duchy of Normandy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Normandy) still belonging to [the Crown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crown). Sark belongs to the Crown in its own right and has an independent relationship with the Crown through the Lieutenant Governor in Guernsey.[[48]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sark#cite_note-hansard-50) Formally, the Seigneur holds it as a [fief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fief) from the Crown, [reenfeoffing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfeoffment) the landowners on the island with their respective parcels. The political consequences of this construction were abolished in recent years, particularly in the reform of the legislative body, Chief Pleas, which took place in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/26 "2024-08-07T04:01:55Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Was it about [fee tail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_tail)? Yes, that seems to be what I was remembering. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/27 "2024-08-07T13:21:30Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > either from crown lands (reducing their income) or by taking it off some other aristo who is not in their good books (risking driving them into rebellion) Or, I suppose, by conquest of new lands. Not sure how often this was the driving force behind medieval wars but it wouldn’t at all surprise me if it was. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/28 "2024-08-07T13:41:59Z")
Very much so, albeit often dressed up with claims to legitimacy of succession (William the Conqueror - Saxon England was seriously wealthy, the Hundred Years’ War) or divine sanction (you could say that goes back to the Milvian Bridge). Come to think of it, it was so much the norm that it was considered [worth remarking that the Habsburgs acquired most of their lands and titles by marriage](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Austriaca). ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/29 "2024-08-07T13:43:36Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > Or, I suppose, by conquest of new lands. This of course is the origin of the duchy of Lancaster and all the other royal and aristocratic holdings in the UK, being ultimately traced back to William the Conk 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/30 "2024-08-07T13:47:27Z")
“We live in a bloody swamp! We need all the land we can get!” ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/31 "2024-08-08T14:37:44Z")
No chance, English pig-dogs. I fart in your general direction. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256/32 "2024-08-12T13:24:03Z")
An example for what the OP is looking for is the [Ceremonial Official to Confucius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Yansheng). This is a government office in Taiwan (a republic), which, following a Chinese tradition that goes back more than two thousand years, is always held by a direct male-line descendant of Confusius. It’s currently unremunerated but was remunerated until 2008. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duchy-of-lancaster/1005256.md?page=1)