# Dude in bunker. SWAT Team got lucky this time. What could they have done? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268 "2012-04-28T21:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/21 "2012-04-29T00:20:01Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Brick over the door and tell them to call when they want out. > [@silenus](#): > > Agreed. A couple of cement trucks solves the problem easily. Thirded. They’ve already imprisoned themselves, and at their own expense to boot. Just leave 'em in there. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/22 "2012-04-29T02:21:09Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > You could either block the air filters or fill the whole thing with water via the air system. No explosives needed and the wait wouldn’t be too long. That’s what the Northern Alliance did. There were _hundreds_ of armed men down there including John Walker Lindh. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/23 "2012-04-29T02:56:36Z")
That worked with this guys bunker. Not having a thick concrete, reinforced roof was a major design flaw. Probably the best source to build something smart are the books on the N. Vietnamese tunnels. For such a simple design they were nearly impossible to defeat. For example, the tunnels zig zagged. So if a grenade was thrown in the person around the corner didn’t get blown up. They had pits in the floors of the tunnels with punji sticks. Imagine crawling through there with a flashlight and falling 3 ft onto those sharp, feces smeared sticks. They had hidden alcoves so they could stab someone as they crawled by. Our guys were the Tunnel Rats and they had one hell of a miserable job fighing the VC in those tunnels. Their tunnels had dozens of hidden exits. The VC could slip out and laugh their ass off as our guys crawled through those tunnels. Johnson tried carpet bombing and even that didn’t work. Those tunnels were a nightmare. If you really want to put the thought into it, you can design a bunker & tunnel system that’s a death trap for anyone going in after you. > [@Otara](#): > > “A Sheriff’s SWAT team blew a hole in the roof of the hideout with explosives and saw what they believe to be the body of Peter Keller.” > > Isnt it pretty obvious what they would do? > > Otara ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/24 "2012-04-29T03:08:21Z")
I should add that part of the Viet Cong’s strategy was having their tunnels entrances well hidden. I can’t recall which US bases they were, but I do recall reading at least a couple of our base’s had VC tunnels under them. They could literally emerge inside our perimeters and blend in with the friendly Vietnamese that worked with us. One of the many reasons why we couldn’t win that war. A survivalist’s bunker does need a tunnel system with hidden exits or it’s pretty useless. As someone above mentioned, you could pour concrete over their door entrance and they are totally screwed. They’d be begging to get out after their food rations were gone. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/25 "2012-04-29T03:20:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I should add that part of the Viet Cong’s strategy was having their tunnels entrances well hidden. I can’t recall which US bases they were, but I do recall reading at least a couple of our base’s had VC tunnels under them. They could literally emerge inside our perimeters and blend in with the friendly Vietnamese that worked with us. One of the many reasons why we couldn’t win that war. > > A survivalist’s bunker does need a tunnel system with hidden exits or it’s pretty useless. As someone above mentioned, you could pour concrete over their door entrance and they are totally screwed. They’d be begging to get out after their food rations were gone. Perhaps I’m missing it, but is there a reason they couldn’t dig their way out if you poured concrete on their entrance? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/26 "2012-04-29T03:33:19Z")
Concrete or not, they would emerge to a greeting committee. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/27 "2012-04-29T03:42:11Z")
[SAVi](http://www.raytheon.com/technology_today/2010_i2/monarch.html) pretty much makes tunnels, even those with hidden entrances, a bit of a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/28 "2012-04-29T14:04:33Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Vogon poetry? The Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/29 "2012-04-29T14:13:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That worked with this guys bunker. Not having a thick concrete, reinforced roof was a major design flaw. Bunkers only work like that if you have ground defenses as well (or preferably an air force). In this case, the cops could have just strolled up with a generator and a jack hammer. It might take some time, but there’s no need for a bunker buster when you can just sit on top of the bunker without fear of reprisal and start digging your way in. I’d vote for boring a hole in the damn thing and sending in a steady stream of tear gas. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/30 "2012-04-29T16:04:33Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Brick over the door and tell them to call when they want out. works for me > [@Muffin](#): > > Vogon poetry? i like the way you think 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Craz3d117](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c4cdca/32.png) [@Craz3d117](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craz3d117)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/31 "2012-04-29T20:35:29Z")
I don’t see the controversy or much of a debate about this. Some people seem to think that a SWAT team has never even thought about having to clear a reinforced position with a ready an armed combatant. The idea is violence of action. Breach with explosives, gas and flash bangs, clear the area. The point man has a big bulletproof shield for a reason and not much is getting through that thing. So we have a combatant who can’t see, is coughing violently and has a wall of 10+ SWAT members heading at him. Yes, it’s a dangerous scenario, probably the most dangerous position a SWAT team can be in. However, teams around the nation train for this sort of thing regularly and know what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/32 "2012-04-29T21:10:57Z")
My point is why bother? Unless the dude has a hostage, fuck him. He has elected to remove himself from civilized society. Brick over his little hidey-hole and let him rot. No need to take even the slightest chance on a cop getting hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/33 "2012-04-29T21:24:54Z")
In my experience, there’s very little a Caterpillar D9 can’t do in this kind of situation. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268/34 "2012-04-30T00:50:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > In my experience, there’s very little a Caterpillar D9 can’t do in this kind of situation. I know the area where the bunker is, been hiking up there a few times. No way to get a D9 up there. The trail head is a challenge to drive to in a 4 wheel drive rig. The guy supposedly spent about 3 years putting the bunker together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-in-bunker-swat-team-got-lucky-this-time-what-could-they-have-done/620268.md?page=1)