# Dude, It's Just A Pair of PANTS! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2007, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828 "2007-06-13T08:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/81 "2007-06-26T01:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Maybe they were really, really _really_ nice pants? [/QUOTE] All of us who can afford them have a few really really _really_ nice pants worth a few million, I guess. Well, I know I do. But $54m? That’s just silly. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/82 "2007-06-26T01:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Brilliant! Or, it would be if Pearson were not a person of color. [/QUOTE] Maybe, to avoid payment, the judge’ll go on the lam – in a [corn field](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=426004). **Jodi** , is it an administrative judge who handles pleading or appealing traffic tickets? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/83 "2007-06-26T02:18:37Z")
The sad thing is…they offered him a LOT more than the pants were worth. If had could have gotten his head out his ass for second he would seen that and everyone would have been spared a lot of anguish and cash. What a dick. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/84 "2007-06-26T02:20:22Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] The sad thing is…they offered him a LOT more than the pants were worth. If had could have gotten **his head out his ass for second** he would seen that and everyone would have been spared a lot of anguish and cash. What a dick. [/QUOTE] It got caught in his zipper. You guys know when that happens you \*really \* can’t think straight. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/85 "2007-06-26T13:56:01Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] **Jodi** , is it an administrative judge who handles pleading or appealing traffic tickets? [/QUOTE] Sometimes. ALJs deal with appeals of administrative actions – actions taken by state or federal agencies. Traffic tickets are violations of state or municipal codes (i.e., there is a law on the books [state or local] that says you can’t do [whatever traffic violation]). So traffic tickets are issued under the direct authority of the government entity (the state, county, or city); they are not “decided” by an agency the way, say, the amount of your property taxes are. But some jurisidictions _do_ employ ALJs to handle traffic matters, including setting fines. IME, whether minor traffic matters are handled by an ALJ/hearings officer or a “real” judge depends on the size of the jurisdiction and the volume of such work. In larger areas where piddly traffic matters might bog down the court system, they not infrequently divert traffic matters from the courts to some ALJ-type system. And, interestingly, you might get a better hearing before an ALJ. That’s because most (all, AFAIK) ALJs must be lawyers who have received training in the subject area they are working in. In some jurisdictions municipal judges or justices of the peace don’t even have to be lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/86 "2007-06-26T13:57:19Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] **Jodi** , is it an administrative judge who handles pleading or appealing traffic tickets? [/QUOTE] Since Jodi hasn’t weighed in yet, I hope my anecdotal contribution will do until then. In every traffic proceeding that I’ve seen personally, it was a real judge presiding. But none of those proceedings were in the District of Columbia. My guess would be that traffic matters would be handled by a judge or a magistrate judge, since traffic violations aren’t usually considered “administrative” matters. (Er … Doh! Thanks Jodi!) ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/87 "2007-06-26T14:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Since Jodi hasn’t weighed in yet, I hope my anecdotal contribution will do until then. In every traffic proceeding that I’ve seen personally, it was a real judge presiding. But none of those proceedings were in the District of Columbia. My guess would be that traffic matters would be handled by a judge or a magistrate judge, since traffic violations aren’t usually considered “administrative” matters. (Er … Doh! Thanks Jodi!) [/QUOTE] **Jodi** , **acsenray** , your (almost) simulpost is another reason I love the Dope. One reason I was asking is, at the time, I had a pending “not guilty” plea by mail over a “sticker not on windshield” ticket. I had a ruling in the mailbox when I got home yesterday – offering to reduce a $65 fine to $43, and it specifically said it was an administrative judge’s ruling. I WILL FIGHT THIS! TO THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND! In this case, by not responding, it’s an automatic appeal (again, at the administrative judge level), but it’ll be either no fine or the full fine. I’m almost sure what’ll happen, but you never know. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/88 "2007-06-26T14:17:11Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Since Jodi hasn’t weighed in yet, I hope my anecdotal contribution will do until then. In every traffic proceeding that I’ve seen personally, it was a real judge presiding. But none of those proceedings were in the District of Columbia. My guess would be that traffic matters would be handled by a judge or a magistrate judge, since traffic violations aren’t usually considered “administrative” matters. [/QUOTE] This is my experience as well, and what I had posted to say, but then a quick search revealed that some jurisdictions _do_ use ALJs for traffic matters (specifically, it appears that at least some New York Boroughs do). Which leads to one of those questions that I recognize is probably only interesting to me: Are those officers properly called ALJs? It seems to me that because they are _not_ dealing with agency determinations, they strictly speaking may not be ALJs but rather hearings examiners/hearings officers. But as you know the terms are often used interchageably, by people who are less tight-assed about terminology than I am. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/89 "2007-06-26T14:27:13Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] This is my experience as well, and what I had posted to say, but then a quick search revealed that some jurisdictions _do_ use ALJs for traffic matters (specifically, it appears that at least some New York Boroughs do). Which leads to one of those questions that I recognize is probably only interesting to me: Are those officers properly called ALJs? It seems to me that because they are _not_ dealing with agency determinations, they strictly speaking may not be ALJs but rather hearings examiners/hearings officers. But as you know the terms are often used interchageably, by people who are less tight-assed about terminology than I am. 🙂 [/QUOTE] I’m in Brooklyn, NY, for the record. Also, I’ll look more closely. The letter said it was an administrative determination. I’ll have check it to see whether it indicates who made it – an ALJ or examiner/hearing officer. I’m pretty sure it was the former. These types of tickets are issue under the auspices of the Dept of Traffice, a City agency, so that could be a defining feature of who’s the Decider. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/90 "2007-06-26T18:22:51Z")
All I want are pants! ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/91 "2007-06-26T18:41:21Z")
From the decision, which is pretty interesting: > [@](#): > > The Court will also accept that Mr. Pearson does not like cuffs on his pants. Heh. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/92 "2007-06-26T19:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=AtomicDog] All I want are pants! [/QUOTE] Solomon Grundy want pants too! ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/93 "2007-06-26T19:53:16Z")
deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/94 "2007-06-26T19:57:27Z")
When I got my pants back from the dry cleaners, my pants were pants. I’m going to sue them every day until they can give me back some pants that aren’t pants. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/95 "2007-07-13T20:25:44Z")
Well, it’s not over yet! The idiot who sued is back in court, asking the judge to reconsider. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19734546/?GT1=10150](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19734546/?GT1=10150) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/96 "2007-07-13T20:51:21Z")
[QUOTE=Baker] Well, it’s not over yet! The idiot who sued is back in court, asking the judge to reconsider. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19734546/?GT1=10150](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19734546/?GT1=10150) [/QUOTE] I saw this on the news, something about “They don’t understand what _satisfaction guaranteed_ means!” Uh, no son, I think _you_ don’t understand it- I think that if a dry cleaner offered me several thousand dollars for allegedly losing a pair of pants from a suit that cost less than $1000, I’d be pretty damned satisfied. (I think their insurance company eventually offered the asshole $12,000.) > [@](#): > > The court effectively substituted a guarantee of satisfaction with ‘reasonable’ limits and preconditions for the unconditional and unambiguous guarantee of satisfaction the defendant-merchant chose to advertise for seven years," Pearson wrote. “That was a fundamental legal error.” There’s a local carpet cleaners I’ve seen that offers Satisfaction Guaranteed, and they have a hotter-than-Hell-on-an-August-midday cleaner who works for them who could do worlds for my satisfaction with just a little bit of pleather and a riding crop. If Pearson wins, I’ll have them do my carpets and if I’m not completely satisfied (and I won’t be), I’ll show them how unambiguously I need to be satisfied. Since the man suing is a lawyer (and freelance judge/arbiter) and is representing himself, doesn’t he risk being disbarred for such frivolous litigation? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/97 "2007-07-13T20:58:26Z")
“Your Honor, I object!” “Overruled.” “I strenously object!” “Oh, okay, then…” (kudoes to Aaron Sorkin…) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/98 "2007-07-16T13:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Since the man suing is a lawyer (and freelance judge/arbiter) [/quote] He’s not a “freelance judge/arbiter.” He’s an administrative law judge for the District of Columbia. It’s a civil service job. > [@](#): > > and is representing himself, doesn’t he risk being disbarred for such frivolous litigation? Apparently, his job might be in jeopardy. Whether he risks his bar membership is a tougher question. I don’t know whether being kind of crazy amounts to an ethical or moral lapse. Anyway, the fact that his case actually went to trial is a good argument that the action was not “frivolous,” or it would have been thrown out much sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/99 "2007-07-16T16:47:30Z")
What you fail to understand is that he had left US$53,000,580.95 in his pants. It was a reasonable lawsuit. I mean, don’t you hate when dry cleaners keep your pocket change? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828/100 "2007-07-16T19:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=Pearson via MSNBC Article] The court effectively substituted a guarantee of satisfaction with ‘reasonable’ limits and preconditions … That was a fundamental legal error. [/QUOTE] Oh, those damned activist courts and their tyrannical “'reasonable limits and preconditions.” When will their dogged oppression of the little guy be put to an end? **To the barricades!** _Allons enfants de la Patrie Le jour de gloire est arrivé!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dude-its-just-a-pair-of-pants/407828.md?page=6)