# Duke \[John Wayne\]'s military service **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 7, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039 "2007-01-07T09:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shep5100](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@shep5100](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shep5100)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/1 "2007-01-07T09:34:12Z")
John Ford was an Admiral in the US Navy. You don’t think he could have gotten Duke in? The reverse is the truth… Duke begged Ford to help him enlist and Ford told him he was worth more to morale and selling bonds by making movies. Ford blocked his enlistment. * * * NOTE FROM MODERATOR: Please be aware that this thread was started in 2007, revived 5/2013 in post #36. – CKDH ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/2 "2007-01-07T13:44:00Z")
[QUOTE=shep5100] John Ford was an Admiral in the US Navy. You don’t think he could have gotten Duke in? The reverse is the truth… Duke begged Ford to help him enlist and Ford told him he was worth more to morale and selling bonds by making movies. Ford blocked his enlistment. [/QUOTE] Are you referring to the column, [“Was John Wayne a draft dodger?”](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_004.html)? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/3 "2007-01-07T17:48:26Z")
As far as I can tell, Ford did not reach the rank of Admiral until after the war, and only in the USNR. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/4 "2007-01-07T18:24:07Z")
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy] As far as I can tell, Ford did not reach the rank of Admiral until after the war, and only in the USNR. [/QUOTE] Ford was a Lt. Commander for the duration of WWII, making Rear Admiral in the reserves sometime in or about 1950. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/5 "2007-01-09T15:11:43Z")
Am I the only person whose first thought was that Duke was Ford’s China Ambassador? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/6 "2007-01-09T15:29:54Z")
Or that racist KKK guy from Louisiana in the late '80s. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/7 "2007-01-09T15:46:20Z")
shep5100 > [@](#): > > John Ford was an Admiral in the US Navy. You don’t think he could have gotten Duke in? The reverse is the truth… Duke begged Ford to help him enlist and Ford told him he was worth more to morale and selling bonds by making movies. Ford blocked his enlistment. I take it you read Cecil’s article and wish to contest it? Of all the SDMB members I am probably one of John Wayne’s biggest critics. (and I don’t mean his acting). You forgot to mention he couldn’t join because of an ear infection or a football injury. Nope neither one of those is true. If John Wayne was the 150% American everyone thinks he is, why didn’t he join the service even _before_ the war started? He wanted to go to the Naval Academy but just missed getting in. So, why didn’t he just join the Navy? Ernest Borgnine did that in 1935 and served for 10 years. John Wayne was too importatnt to morale? Well, I guess other actors (Clark Gable, Henry Fonda, Tyrone Power, etc) decided to “shirk” their American morale value and took the “easy” way out by serving in a real war. Sorry for sounding so bitter, but I guess it’s because I am. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/8 "2007-01-12T17:52:57Z")
[QUOTE=Maus Magill] Am I the only person whose first thought was that Duke was Ford’s China Ambassador? [/QUOTE] I thought Dukes military service consisted of fighting in the Congo for the summer while working his way through college 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/9 "2007-01-12T18:19:45Z")
Nah, that was Roland the headless Thompson gunner. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/10 "2007-01-12T18:59:57Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Nah, that was Roland the headless Thompson gunner. 😉 [/QUOTE] I’ve been whoosed ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/11 "2007-01-12T22:03:56Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] John Wayne was too importatnt to morale? Well, I guess other actors (Clark Gable, Henry Fonda, Tyrone Power, etc) decided to “shirk” their American morale value and took the “easy” way out by serving in a real war. [/QUOTE] Not to mention Jimmy Stewart, who really put the lie to Wayne’s “morale” excuse by: - enlisting a year before Pearl Harbor… - when he was already an established star… - and already in his mid 30s… - actively working to **overcome** obstacles to his enlistment rather than trying to find some (he had to go on a workout regimen to reach the required minimum weight!) - performing morale-boosting radio broadcasts for the troops - ended up flying combat missions over Europe and being decorated a half-dozen times Too bad he didn’t stay home and make movies to show how much he loved America, huh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/12 "2007-01-14T17:27:03Z")
And then again there was Frank Sinatra with ,I believe ,his pierced eardrum…he was so lucky that once the war had ended he never had any trouble from it ever again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/13 "2007-01-14T20:08:34Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] And then again there was Frank Sinatra with ,I believe ,his pierced eardrum…he was so lucky that once the war had ended he never had any trouble from it ever again. [/QUOTE] A pierced eardrum is relatively harmless, but can be fatal in a poison-gas attack. For that reason, it _was_ a by-the-book reason for rejection. And an Army doctor verified that Sinatra had one. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/14 "2007-01-14T20:29:27Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] And then again there was Frank Sinatra with ,I believe ,his pierced eardrum…he was so lucky that once the war had ended he never had any trouble from it ever again. [/QUOTE] Probably got it from standing between Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. once too often onstage. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/15 "2007-01-14T20:39:00Z")
According to the IMDB (admittedly, not the most reliable of sources), their biography for [John Wayne](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/bio) states: > [@](#): > > According to a recent biography of director John Ford, Wayne was worried that serving in the military would risk ending his career in Hollywood. Ford would frequently attack Wayne for his failure to enlist, calling him a coward and comparing him unfavorably with actors who did not disobey the draft, such as James Stewart. On one occasion while visiting US troops fighting in World War II, Wayne was rumored to have been booed off the stage. Hmm, this sharply contrasts with **shep5100** ’s posting wouldn’t you say? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/16 "2007-01-15T20:34:53Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] Hmm, this sharply contrasts with **shep5100** ’s posting wouldn’t you say? 😃 [/QUOTE] Seems to, but could be the same person made both remarks. People have moods. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/17 "2007-01-15T21:52:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to mention Jimmy Stewart, who … ended up flying combat missions over Europe and being decorated a half-dozen times I thought that was his brother… Of course, he wouldn’t have been able to do it if Jimmy hadn’t pulled him out of that frozen pond as a child. 😉 And if it’s any consolation about John Wayne, he was apparently [killed by a nuke](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_016.html). So maybe there’s some poetic justice, of a sort, in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/18 "2007-01-16T06:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=Maus Magill] Am I the only person whose first thought was that Duke was Ford’s China Ambassador? [/QUOTE] My first thought was that it was a reference to the Duke of Edinburgh. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/19 "2007-01-16T22:24:54Z")
Question for **wolf\_meister** , **OneCentStamp** , and all others who are “bitter” about John Wayne’s lack of service: Respectfully, mind if I ask why? My gut instinct is that this is a generational thing — but I (who was not alive at the time) could not care less about John Wayne’s lack of service. I’m duly impressed by Jimmy Stewart’s service, but I don’t see why that means that John Wayne should have had to serve if he didn’t want to/wasn’t drafted. If he was drafted and dodged - that’s one thing. But he wasn’t - he was granted several deferrals, which to my mind means Uncle Sam himself says it’s okay not to fight. If Joe Nobody was granted 3-A status and didn’t have to go - I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Why should I care if Wayne was in the same situation? I don’t think it makes anyone less American if they don’t go fight in a war they’re not compelled to go to. So I guess I’m just wondering the real problem? Is it the “morale” justification that gets bandied around? Is it simply the fact that he didn’t serve, but acted in war movies? Is it because he was supposed to be some “tough guy,” but didn’t want to go kick some ass like a tough guy should? Is it because you had friends and family who went to war, and it’s not fair that a movie star shouldn’t have to? I’m truly curious - so please, one of you codgers spell it out for me. 😉 I’d also be interested to hear (a) whether you’re ex-military (to see if that factors in to your opinion) and (b) if you think being bitter at John Wayne over not enlisting is a generational thing (and indirectly related = what generation you are). ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039/20 "2007-01-17T15:29:09Z")
**Doctor Who** I’m glad you asked. In my case being born in 1951, I was of draft age during the Vietnam War. My 4 years of college were from 1969 - 1973. The draft and the Vietnam War ended in 1973 and I did not have to go. What bothers me is the fact that this larger than life icon (to most people) was a rather outspoken _proponent_ of the Vietnam War yet when it was _his_ time to serve, he took an easy way out. A lot of John Wayne’s deferment facts were _not_ known back in the 1960’s and 1970’s and people always made excuses for him such as “his football injury in college made him ineligible”. Bullshit!!! Now, thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, the Internet, and so on, I realize what a shallow “hero” he really was. Also, being 5’3" tall, I couldn’t possibly be any kind of a “hero” right? I could never measure up to the Duke. Look up about Audie Murphy - the number one hero of World War II. A guy who was not much taller than I am. Still, if people were to think about WWII heroes, I’m sure John “Celluloid Hero” Wayne would come to mind a lot faster than Audie Murphy. :mad: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/duke-john-wayne-s-military-service/387039.md?page=2)