# Dukes of Hazard dropped from TV Land schedule
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 1, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962 "2015-07-01T16:05:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/61 "2015-07-02T13:56:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> Ah - I’d forgotten that part. So, yeah - never mind the flag when there’s statutory rape blithely handwaved away (not to mention that poor horse).
Actually back then, that might not have been statutory rape. In at least _some_ states in 1962 (when the film is set), the age of consent would have been 13. Changing mores.
**ETA** : [Or even younger](http://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/09/age-of-consent-in-european-american-history/). (!!!)
> [@](#):
>
> Professor of Sociology Anthony Joseph Paul Cortese says that a 50 year old man being with a girl under 10 (being intimate) under United States law was legal until the mid 1960s,
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### Author:  [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/62 "2015-07-02T14:08:46Z")
> [@Spoke](#):
>
> A [CNN poll out today](http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/index.html) says a majority of Americans (not just Southerners) _still_ think of it that way.
…And the article’s next paragraphs are:
> [@](#):
>
> Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.
>
> Among whites, there’s a sharp divide by education, and those with more formal education are less apt to see the flag as a symbol of pride. Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it’s a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it’s a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.
I’m not sure argum\*entum ad populum \*works when the predominant factor is the oppressor’s POV being overrepresented while being asked if they are oppressive. Especially if the minority’s POV is that yes, it is indeed racist.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/63 "2015-07-02T14:21:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> Ah - I’d forgotten that part. So, yeah - never mind the flag when there’s statutory rape blithely handwaved away (not to mention that poor horse).
Don’t forget Bluto climbing the ladder to look through the sorority windows.
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### Author:  [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/64 "2015-07-02T14:25:14Z")
> [@stpauler](#):
>
> …And the article’s next paragraphs are:
> I’m not sure argum\*entum ad populum \*works when the predominant factor is the oppressor’s POV being overrepresented while being asked if they are oppressive. Especially if the minority’s POV is that yes, it is indeed racist.
I am not defending the flag. As I have written elsewhere, I think it should come down. I am just pointing out that it is _still_ not popularly perceived by a majority as racist.
ETA: I do think the idea of disappearing the flag from our pop culture past is overboard.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/65 "2015-07-02T14:30:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#):
>
> By what standards isn’t the Confederate flag a terrorist symbol? The rebel army demanded $300,000 from Frederick Maryland or they would burn it to the ground; as they marched through Union territory they rounded up black people and sent them south to be enslaved. Sure sounds like Isis tactics to me.
Eh, the flag is more of a terrorist symbol because of its association with the Klan, a bona fide terrorist group. Both sides in the Civil War committed war crimes and atrocities, if we start calling that stuff terrorism then we run into the frequent problem of absurdity, in which a word loses meaning because it’s applicable to everyone and everything.
Asking for tribute and enslaving people doesn’t sound like terrorism to me, by the way. Because again, we have to call everyone terrorists before a certain point of time and I really do not feel that’s a useful way to use the word given the “generally accepted and understood” meaning of the term. That’s how conquering armies have **typically** behaved. Western countries that show restraint (albeit with a spotty record of doing so) in the 20th and 21st centuries are an historical aberration. In the case of ISIS they’re both a terrorist group and a traditional “barbarian horde” so to speak.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/66 "2015-07-02T14:38:02Z")
Is there a reason Tom Petty is our benchmark for social conventions? Or a reason to think that he’d use the same flag in a show today? How does “Tom Petty used a flag in the 1980s!” remotely relate to anything happening today, 25+ years later?
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### Author:  [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/67 "2015-07-02T14:53:46Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#):
>
> Eh, the flag is more of a terrorist symbol because of its association with the Klan, a bona fide terrorist group. Both sides in the Civil War committed war crimes and atrocities, if we start calling that stuff terrorism then we run into the frequent problem of absurdity, in which a word loses meaning because it’s applicable to everyone and everything.
>
> Asking for tribute and enslaving people doesn’t sound like terrorism to me, by the way. Because again, we have to call everyone terrorists before a certain point of time and I really do not feel that’s a useful way to use the word given the “generally accepted and understood” meaning of the term. That’s how conquering armies have **typically** behaved. Western countries that show restraint (albeit with a spotty record of doing so) in the 20th and 21st centuries are an historical aberration. In the case of ISIS they’re both a terrorist group and a traditional “barbarian horde” so to speak.
Gosh what a coincidence that the Klan used a confederate battle flag as it’s symbol to instill terror. It’s almost as if the KKK was continuing the work of the CSA and was founded by former CSA soldiers.
Part of the reason there is a backlash now is because Americans are tired of the constant rewriting of history to turn the civil war into sanitized fight between equally noble sides. It’s simply not true, one side fought for white supremacy and the enslavement of other people and that side carried the confederate battle flag. It’s like decent folk finally decided to call bullshit all at once.
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### Author:  [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/68 "2015-07-02T14:56:17Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> Is there a reason Tom Petty is our benchmark for social conventions? Or a reason to think that he’d use the same flag in a show today? How does “Tom Petty used a flag in the 1980s!” remotely relate to anything happening today, 25+ years later?
Because this is all Tom Petty’s fault and the sooner we acknowledge that fact hopefully we can all move on from this hurtful national tragedy.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/69 "2015-07-02T14:58:25Z")
Tom Petty? Didn’t he use to be famous?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/70 "2015-07-02T15:01:20Z")
The flag was a pop culture symbol in the 70’s. I saw it everywhere. Cars had confederate front plates (separate from license plates) or they had a tiny flag on the radio antennae. It was on tshirts, bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd used it.
It was just part of the days fad. Along with shag hair cuts, loud shirts, and bell bottoms. We wore ankle high boots, square toed that zipped up on the side.
The Dukes reflected the time they lived in. To rewrite pop culture history now is ridiculous. I lived that life. I got the shag, razor cuts at the barbershop. Had the bell bottoms and tshirts.
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### Author:  [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/71 "2015-07-02T15:03:15Z")
The Coy and Vance episodes are the only ones worth watching anyway.
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### Author:  [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/72 "2015-07-02T15:04:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> The Dukes reflected the time they lived in. To rewrite pop culture history now is ridiculous. I lived that life. I got the shag, razor cuts at the barbershop. Had the bell bottoms and tshirts.
Who is rewriting history? TV Land is choosing not to profit any more off of airing a program. They’re not CGIing the flag out of the program.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/73 "2015-07-02T15:05:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> The Dukes reflected the time they lived in. To rewrite pop culture history now is ridiculous. I lived that life. I got the shag, razor cuts at the barbershop.
Eh, I grew up in the 70’s. You know what else we had? Cartoons where a firecracker would blow off in someone’s face and they’d turn towards the viewer and do a little minstrel act – “MAMMY!”. Also we used to slant our eyes with our fingers and made ching-chong noises and everyone laughed. And the “My dad has a chainsaw and it goes ‘run-nigga-nigga!’” was always a popular joke.
Some things that were just peaches and cream back in the day can be safely left in the past.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/74 "2015-07-02T15:06:55Z")
> [@madmonk28](#):
>
> Gosh what a coincidence that the Klan used a confederate battle flag as it’s symbol to instill terror. It’s almost as if the KKK was continuing the work of the CSA and was founded by former CSA soldiers.
>
> Part of the reason there is a backlash now is because Americans are tired of the constant rewriting of history to turn the civil war into sanitized fight between equally noble sides. It’s simply not true, one side fought for white supremacy and the enslavement of other people and that side carried the confederate battle flag. It’s like decent folk finally decided to call bullshit all at once.
You obviously missed my point–not all “parties in a war that do bad things” are, or should be, labeled terrorists. It destroys what I think is a pretty meaningful term with a specific meaning. Primarily meaning a force that has limited conventional warfare capabilities and targets a civilian population using asymmetric tactics to try and terrorize said civilian populace as a way of striking at the military they cannot confront directly.
The Confederacy doesn’t fit the bill regardless of their atrocities because they were fielding a large army. The only grey area are things like Confederate saboteurs who operated in the North, but they tended to focus on infrastructure and not attacking the civilian populace.
I don’t view the Roman legions as having been terrorist forces either, for that matter. Nor even the Nazis. Terrorist shouldn’t be a catch-all word for “people who do bad stuff in war.” We’d have to label every belligerent nation in WWII (including the United States) as terrorists if we want to use that definition, and to me a definition that includes essentially any type of belligerent force in any conflict is superfluous to other words that already cover that and muddies the water on a meaningful term relevant to modern day geopolitical situations.
The Ku Klux Klan is a much more cut-and-dry terrorist group, and fits the definition perfectly. The “Stars and Bars” association with said terrorist group are a much more compelling reason for it being a terrorist flag than its association with the confederacy.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/75 "2015-07-02T15:08:13Z")
John Schneider defends his old show. Didn’t realize he’s so busy. The video was shot at a studio where he’s wrapping up two film projects.
> **[‘Dukes of Hazzard’ star John Schneider slams TV Land for dropping show:...](https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/dukes-hazzard-star-slams-tv-land-dropping-show-article-1.2278977)**
>
> John Schneider is fuming that TV Land has stopped airing reruns of “The Dukes of Hazzard.”
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### Author:  [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/76 "2015-07-02T15:16:48Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> Is there a reason Tom Petty is our benchmark for social conventions? Or a reason to think that he’d use the same flag in a show today? How does “Tom Petty used a flag in the 1980s!” remotely relate to anything happening today, 25+ years later?
We are discussing the Dukes of Hazzard. Many people see the flag in that show and apparently jump to “RACIST!”
I am demonstrating that the flag, while it may be perceived that way by many (but still not most) today, was not perceived that way at the time. Its use was innocent, and so it’s a little odd to get worked up about it.
The Petty video is offered as supporting evidence of the zeitgeist at the time. The flag was viewed by most as an innocuous symbol of Southern pride or a more generic rebelliousness.
To answer your other question, I’m pretty sure the answer is: no, Tom Petty would not use the flag today. Attitudes are changing. And that’s good.
What’s bad, in my opinion, is our hysterical retroactive purge of pop culture. That strikes me as, I dunno, _Soviet._
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/77 "2015-07-02T15:24:40Z")
The fact that people were okay with, or ignorant of, casual racism back in the day doesn’t really make it better. As I mentioned, people were okay with all sorts of casually racist shit when I was growing up. And a TV station not showing a program is nothing remotely like a government purge. Go buy the DVDs if you want to see it.
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/78 "2015-07-02T15:28:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> John Schneider defends his old show. Didn’t realize he’s so busy. The video was shot at a studio where he’s wrapping up two film projects.
> [‘Dukes of Hazzard’ star John Schneider slams TV Land for dropping show: ‘Can’t we all just watch TV?’ – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/dukes-hazzard-star-slams-tv-land-dropping-show-article-1.2278977)
_“I think it’s an error because ‘Dukes of Hazzard’ was one of the most beloved shows ever”_
:dubious:
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/79 "2015-07-02T15:36:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#):
>
> The Ku Klux Klan is a much more cut-and-dry terrorist group, and fits the definition perfectly. The “Stars and Bars” association with said terrorist group are a much more compelling reason for it being a terrorist flag than its association with the confederacy.
Just in case I propagated this, the orange-with-crossbars-and-stars flag at the point of contention is NOT the “Stars and Bars.” The Stars-and-Bars is the CSA flag, which slightly resembles the US flag except for having only three red-and-white stripes.
The flag we’re all raving about is the “Confederate Battle Flag.” Or one of them.
_This has been a public service announcement from the dummy who misused the term._
---
### Author:  [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dukes-of-hazard-dropped-from-tv-land-schedule/723962/80 "2015-07-02T15:45:34Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> The fact that people were okay with, or ignorant of, **casual racism** back in the day doesn’t really make it better.
My bolding.
Maybe we have different definitions of the phrase.
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